Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:31 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Pouch RZ 96 pictures
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:14 am 
I've posted some photos of my Pouch RZ 96: http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/Pouch-RZ96-Photos


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:49 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Nice photos, Anne.

How do you like the kayak? If you have any experience with a Klepper or LH double, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on how the RZ 96 compares to these.

Paul


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:22 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Yes-- very interesting, clear photos. Very similar to an A2 in performance, I would imagine. The fittings look a little more solid than Klepper.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:29 pm 
I have not paddled the Klepper Aerius 2 or LH double myself, but from what I read on the German forum faltboot.de, the RZ96 seems faster than the Aerius double. The RZ 96 is longer (5.50m) and sits a bit lower in the water. There is a consensus in the German forum that the Pouch RZ 85 (without sponsons) is quite a bit faster than the Aerius 2, but not too many people there have the RZ 96 with sponsons.

The RZ 96 feels much easier to paddle than my Klepper Aerius single, but doubles (paddled by 2 people) are usually faster than comparable singles, so I don't know if this is a valid comparison.

In terms of quality, workmanship and assembly I like the Pouch a lot. Before buying the Pouch I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to buy a kayak that, compared to Klepper, has a reputation for lower quality and more difficult assembly. It turned out that the workmanship is just as good as Klepper's and the assembly is just as easy. Only the coaming takes longer to assemble, but it also seems a more sturdy system and provides secure attachment points for a spraydeck.

The stainless steel fittings on the ribs are excellent. The ribs are easier to install than on my Klepper and the connection has no play. I noticed on the picture that there is some corrosion from use in saltwater. Applying oil once in a while should do the trick.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 12:28 am 
Anne, if it's not a secret, what do you wear in protected places like Indian Arm in winter? With a boat like this rolling is not an option, and chances of capsizing are nearly zero (especially in Indian Arm). Does it have the same afternoon air inflow (south wind blowing into the cove) in winter, as in summer? With winters like this I'm starting thinking of winter paddling - skiing is terrible now.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:22 am 
ALM, the Indian Arm trip was in late October and it was a sunny calm day, no waves at all and just a breeze. So we ended up wearing only neoprene shorts and thermal shirts. The Widgeon Creek trip was in November and extremely cold and wet. It was a sunny day in Vancouver I heard, but near Coquitlam it was hailing. We wore wet suits (farmer), raingear, neoprene booties and gloves, but we still got very cold. I havn't kayaked since then, but if I do more winter paddling in the future I would get a whitewater (light) cap and the high neoprene boots at MEC.

Crosscountry conditions on Cypress were excellent last Sunday. I heard the snow in the backcountry resembles concrete - but with avalanche danger rated high everywhere in BC there are few places to go to anyways. The constant rain does not seem very nice for kayaking either though.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 7:19 am 
Hi Anne,

I'm considering the purchase of a used RZ-96 and am interested in how yours is holding up, whether you still like it or have any regrets about the purchase. I understand yours was new when you got it.

Also, why did you choose the Pouch over, say, the AEII or other wood-framed tandems like the Nautiraids or even the Pouch 85?

Thanks,

Chris


Top
  
 
 Post subject: RZ96 short review
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 3:28 pm 
Hi Chris,

The following comments are based on only 1 overnight trip and 2 day trips with the RZ96. More trips are planned for this summer, including a 2-week trip on the BC coast. I experienced only light winds and waves so far, and I don't know how the boat handles in larger waves. It is probably wetter (especially for the paddler in the front) than a Klepper because the Pouch is lower on the water. On the plus side, the RZ96 should be less affected by wind than a Klepper double.

If you buy a used RZ96, you should find out what year it was made. The early models had bad hardware, ribs popped off etc. Try to get a picture or description of the hardware. On http://www.faltboot.de there are comments on the different types of hardware that the RZ96 went through. Let me know if you need help with translation.

2005 Pouch RZ 96 Expedition double folding kayak with hypalon hull, keelstrip, life line and 2 hatches.

Good: assembly, handling on the water, tracking (very good), turning (ok), stability, cargo space, workmanship, price, skin packs smaller than Klepper's.

Bad: high weight, uncomfortable back rests, fewer keelstrips than e.g. Klepper, little reinforcement on skin at bow and stern, positioning rudder pedals problematic is you are shorter than 170cm.

Assembly is straightforward, comparable to Klepper but with better hardware in my opinion (from 2005 models onwards). Coaming assembly takes the longest but the construction allows very secure sprayskirt attachment. It handles very nicely on the water. It tracks very well, even without rudder in (light) winds and waves. There is plenty of cargo space. The small hatches are useful for arranging bags in bow and stern.

I changed the backrests and the rudder pedals. The wooden backrests are very uncomfortable, same as on a Klepper. I replaced them with softer Wilderness System backrests. The rudder pedals were too far forward for me, and I couldn't move them to the ideal position because they would have had to sit right on the rib. I installed a piece of dowel for steering instead (based on a description that I found on http://www.faltbootbasteln.de).

The seats are a little further apart than in a Klepper double, but they are close enough to require paddle stroke coordination. Speed seems similar to rigid sea kayak doubles that I paddled. I haven’t paddled any other folding double, so I don’t know how it compares.

I bought the Pouch RZ96 because it was less expensive than a new Klepper Aerius II or Nautiraid and also because it is longer and (said to be) faster. I got a discount because the boat had been set up in the store for 2 months. I looked for used Kleppers, but there were very few available and prices seemed high. Nautiraid was also more expensive, and I didn't see any advantage in the Nautiraid double compared to Pouch. Feathercraft Klondike is manufactured just around the corner, but I didn't like the long assembly time and the price. Sponsons were important for me (for sailing, easier re-entry from the water), that's why I went with the RZ96 instead of the RZ85. In the end it was also the wealth of information on Pouch boats available on the German forum http://www.faltboot.de that made me buy it.

If I wasn't planning to sail the kayak I would have looked for a narrower boat. Unfortunately there aren't many folding doubles commercially available that are narrower than 80cm.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Thank You
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 7:55 am 
Anne, Thank you for the information about the RZ96. Anytime you feel like posting some more assembly pictures, I'd be glad to see them :) I had some trouble with the search feature at the German language forum, but will try again.

I'm planning to sell my Puffin II to raise the money to buy another boat, so I'll have time for research.

Chris


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2006 12:29 pm 
Chris, There are pictures in the assembly instructions that Pouch supplies, in case you havn't seen them already. Some are a bit dark though. I don't have any more assembly pictures and usually don't have time to take pictures when going kayaking. The instructions are in German only unfortunately.
http://www.poucher-boote.de/index.php?id=38
In PDF: http://www.poucher-boote.de/uploads/med ... eitung.pdf

I forgot to mention that I don't like the square longerons in the RZ96. They come out of the plastic clips quite easily and the steel connectors damage the varnish. It is only a minor issue, and they work fine once installed, but I prefer Klepper's round longerons.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:13 am 
Anne wrote:
I forgot to mention that I don't like the square longerons in the RZ96. They come out of the plastic clips quite easily and the steel connectors damage the varnish.


Hi Anne, the photos in the link are pretty good, thanks. I know I sometimes think I'll do some assembly photos, but pretty much just want to get on the water as quickly as possible.

On my E68, the square longerons are held against and into notches on the ribs by an arrangement of webbing straps that lock-clip to the gunwales.

On your boat, do they pop off the ribs while underway, or do they just annoy during assembly?

Thanks,

Chris


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Longerons
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 12:23 pm 
Only during assembly, and they don't pop off that easily either, but in my Klepper the round longerons just seemed easier to assemble and they stayed in their plastic notches. Once the Pouch longerons are in place and the sponsons are inflated, they don't come out.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:46 am 
Hello

I like very much the RZ96 and i like to have one but in my country i did not find it for sale and I cannot afford to buy one from other country. I have a some experience in working with wood and I think I can build the frame, but I do not have any plans and this is my major problem can you help me?

Please excuse my english I am a beginer.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:01 am 
Your English is o.k.
Have a look at this home-built kayak:
http://yostwerks.com/VP2.html


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:47 am 
thank's a lot ... I could say that is the link I was looking for.
does one of you have a home-build kayak?


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group