Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:51 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:37 pm 
The pakboat web site states that, If you want to do fishing or birdwatching you are better off with another model, rather than the Swift. Can someone tell me, is the Swift really that finicky or are they just being over cautious for the new user?

I am the new owner of a Puffin 12. I like it so far, but I do have the option of returning it to LLBean in favor of the Swift. I find my 12 doesn't track as well as I might optimally want in larger waters (the St. Laurence River in Ontario). I haven't had the pleasure of taking it on small lakes and rivers as yet.

Thanks fellow Pakboatians. This site is awesome. I was really pleased to know I'm not alone in the struggle to get the gunnels out the first time. Ay Caramba!


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 9:37 am 
lord high faltbotmeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:55 am
Posts: 575
Location: Dumfries, SW Scotland
JMK60 wrote:
The pakboat web site states that, If you want to do fishing or birdwatching you are better off with another model, rather than the Swift. Can someone tell me, is the Swift really that finicky or are they just being over cautious for the new user?


I've only used my Swift on a flatwater river and a small calm lake, so I can't comment on how it would handle rougher water. But for my use, I've never had any stability problems. My other boat is a Safari inflatable which is at least 3" wider than the Swift, but I'm not aware of any real difference in the stability. (Centre of gravity is a bit lower in the Swift, which helps.)

I don't know what the demands of fishing would be. But I can happily sit back and relax in my Swift to watch the wildlife. I do tend to be careful getting in or out of it, but that's just me being chicken. The day I tried some wet stuff, so I was suitably dressed and already wet, I was hopping in and out of it in two or three feet of water with no problems.

The Swift is a little heavier than the Puffin, though.

Mary


Mary

_________________
Not in Oxford any more...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:43 pm 
JMK60 wrote:
The pakboat web site states that, If you want to do fishing or birdwatching you are better off with another model, rather than the Swift. Can someone tell me, is the Swift really that finicky or are they just being over cautious for the new user?


I think they're being cautious, personally.

We've got a 12 and two Swifts here, and frankly there isn't all that much difference between the two types in terms of stability.

While we don't fish, we both watch birds, and I take pictures in the Swifts. The Swift is faster and tracks better than the 12, there's a little more room in the 12's cockpit area, but not much more.

The Swift will take a little longer to setup/take down, because it has a couple more pieces; but the difference isn't really significant in our experience.

I suppose that fishing might be an issue, depending on what you get hooked.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Swift
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 3:30 pm 
How long does it take to assemble the Swift?

Just wondering if it's faster to set up than a FC Kahuna or even a Folbot.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:17 pm 
anoroc wrote:
How long does it take to assemble the Swift?

Just wondering if it's faster to set up than a FC Kahuna or even a Folbot.


Folbots are all different, with assembling time varying from 12-15 for Aleut to 30-45 minutes for Cooper. Kahuna takes 25-30 minutes for most of users.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2005 8:53 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
The Swift takes 15-20 minutes to assemble or disassemble. My guess is that it is about the same time as the Aleut, or slightly longer. I think I can assemble my Puffin II 2 or 3 minutes faster than my Swift, and the P2 is probably about the same as the Aleut.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:06 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:55 am
Posts: 575
Location: Dumfries, SW Scotland
Chris T. is faster than me - mySwift takes me about half an hour from "everything in the bag" to "ready to launch". I haven't timed disassembly, but getting the air out of the sponsons must be faster than putting it in. (Upper sponsons half-filled, lower sponsons filled, upper sponsons completely filled... 6 moves of the pump.)

Do you know the new dance, the "Pakboat Shuffle"? To get all the air out of the sponsons, so that the skin will fold flat, I lay the skin out, folded edge to edge, stand on it near the stern, and shuffle my feet sideways along it to squeeze the air out. Happily, I've managed to do that bit without an audience, so far...
Mary

_________________
Not in Oxford any more...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:50 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
From parking lot to water includes a few more things than just assembling and disassembling. Mary's estimate is reasonable.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 7:24 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
I will elaborate a bit:
During my trip up the Somme, in France last Summer, I kept an eye on my watch while getting in and out of the water. I assembled and disassembled every day. The assembly time was a reliable 15 minutes, but rigging all the gear into the boat and getting it into the water took another 15-20. If one isn't travelling, it shouldn't take that long-- but one wouldn't be in such good practice, either. Disassembling was a couple of minutes faster.
As I said, the Swift is a little more time-consuming than the P2, but only by a couple of minutes.
I'm a pretty slow assembler. My Klepper takes me at least half an hour to assemble, and others on this list claim to be at least twice that fast.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:50 pm 
I have had my Puffin Swift out about 10 times now, and find that it's a great platform for bird watching. I've gotten extremely close to herons and egrets, and was delighted to be able to watch an Osprey fishing. The probable reason that the manufactuer recommends the Puffin 12 over the Swift for bird watching is that the Puffin 12 is wider and possibly more stable. But I like the speed and maneuverability of the Swift -- it gets me to the hot birding spots quickly and easily. I also find it to be quite stable, except when I am trying to get out of it.


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:42 am 
JMK60 wrote:
The pakboat web site states that, If you want to do fishing or birdwatching you are better off with another model, rather than the Swift. Can someone tell me, is the Swift really that finicky or are they just being over cautious for the new user?

I am the new owner of a Puffin 12. I like it so far, but I do have the option of returning it to LLBean in favor of the Swift. I find my 12 doesn't track as well as I might optimally want in larger waters (the St. Laurence River in Ontario). I haven't had the pleasure of taking it on small lakes and rivers as yet.

Thanks fellow Pakboatians. This site is awesome. I was really pleased to know I'm not alone in the struggle to get the gunnels out the first time. Ay Caramba!


I own a Swift and two 12 foot Puffins. The Swift is more tipsy than a Puffin 12, but I do photography with it in rivers and in Virginia Beach area, where I ride frequent boat wakes, and never have any concerns. What I did notice is that it tracks better, and is considerably faster than the Puffin 12's.

Hope that helps.
Jean-Claude


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:01 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Southeast Michigan
Alm wrote:
...
Folbots are all different, with assembling time varying from 12-15 for Aleut to 30-45 minutes for Cooper. Kahuna takes 25-30 minutes for most of users.


I'd call the Cooper a 20 minute boat. Frame parts are grouped together into subassemblies so it goes together remarkably fast.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:14 am 
Hello Everyone,
I am considering a Swift or Puffin 12'. I have read some stability problems with Swift and some tracking problems with Puffin 12'. Apparantly problems with stretching deck on for swift seems to be frustrating and fitting of the four support rods. I have studied assembly instructions - these seem to be straight forward.
(I am 5' 10" - 175 lbs. and feel very tipsy in boats)
From what I have read I prefer the Swift
I am a very much 'first timer' to the kayaking game.
Thanks Andrew


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:41 am 
Akakak,

If you haven't already done it. Do read the "Extensive review of the Pakboat Swift" posted by Tim Root in this section. And click on his link to his website - it's informative.

Rods


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:33 am 
akakak wrote:
Hello Everyone,
I am considering a Swift or Puffin 12'. I have read some stability problems with Swift and some tracking problems with Puffin 12'. Apparantly problems with stretching deck on for swift seems to be frustrating and fitting of the four support rods. I have studied assembly instructions - these seem to be straight forward.
(I am 5' 10" - 175 lbs. and feel very tipsy in boats)
From what I have read I prefer the Swift
I am a very much 'first timer' to the kayaking game.
Thanks Andrew


I am impressed with the puffin. I can't hold a candle to a top of the line boat costing 2-4 times more, but then again this statement is self explanatory. When the primary goals are lightweight, inexpensive, and small packaged footprint, they can't be beat. I rather paddle my own boat any day, but I also rather carry, assemble and dissemble the Puffin instead of my own.

Stability on the Puffin 12, and I suspect the swift, is much improved by moving up the pontoons while inflating them (they might ride low if you just blow air on them) and by not over inflating the seat; The higher you are, the less stable you'll feel. Keep in mind that tippyness may be a temporary thing, to be overcome by spending time on the boat. My kayak is 22.88" wide and the first few times I took it out gave me the nasty feeling of having made judgment error. Trust me, you ride it a few times on the ocean swell and on choppy lakes, and you will be cured in short time, all for the cost of going under a few times :wink: Seriously, it would take some effort to tip over a Puffin 12, some folks feel that the secondary stability of the swift is rather similar to the 12.

Tracking is as tracking does :lol: What I mean to say is that (to my not too experienced paddling behind) the best I can manage on a sprint is a 'duck' sprint, where I can go on a straight line but the tail does a slight left and right with every stroke. My wife thinks it is cute, I want to try a skeg to see how it likes it; I would like to improve the efficiency of the forward motion.

There is just so fast that you can go on a 12' boat. I'm not talking about entering in races, but to the fact that you can distinctly feel that the boat is going as fast as it cares to go. Doubling your efforts rewards you with just a modicum of speed. The swift would probably give you better speed for the same amount of input, which is always welcome when you just want to check that next bend on the river or in rushing back when you realize that you are late for something.

175 pounds is about right for the puffin. My wife is 135 and she feels it is too 'floaty'. I'm 200 and it feels fine. With me and my 55-pound daughter on my lap, it begins to feel harder to paddle.

Just about any assembly frustration has to do with technique. My wife is yet to learn how to stretch and assemble the deck, but I think it has to do with the fact that as long as she doesn't know how, I then have to do it :roll: I haven't done a swift but I would not think that it would be all that harder. Yes, the first time it will be a pain, maybe the first five times, but once you know how, it is not that bad at all.


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group