Folding Kayaks Forum

I have not been active on this forum, but it is time to make an announcement. Pakboats is introducing a new touring kayak. The Quest 150 replaces the Quest 135 and 155 that were introduced in 2013. There is not much difference in looks, but the new Quest has been upgraded in many ways. It is simpler and easier to assemble. More rugged, yet lighter. And it is less expensive. The 155 was priced at $1595 when it came on the market 4 years ago. The 2017 Quest 150 is $1385.

Product development is an evolutionary process, and we have not come directly from the original Quests to the 150. Upgrades to the recreational Puffin kayaks were based on the Quests, and the 150 benefits from years of experience with a few hundred Puffins.

All along, we have worked to develop better hull materials, and the 150 hull is much tougher than the materials we had available in 2013. In fact, the new bottom material has a heavy-duty TPU coating on a tightly woven 2000 denier substrate (feel free to compare with our competition). The side fabric has the same 2000 denier substrate, but the TPU coating is lighter because the sides are not exposed to nearly as much wear and tear.

Weights and measures: Length 14' 11", beam 24", max depth 13", weight 31 lbs, capacity 275 lbs.
Packed size: 30" x 14" x 10" (one single bag)

Many thanks for sharing Alv and the very best of luck with sales of your new Quest 150!

_________________
Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island

Sounds great, Alv.
When will you add it to your web site?

If anyone is pining after the no longer available Folbot Kodiak, take a look at this new Pakboats model. Looks like a nice boat and the price is great.

Good luck in this still slow economy Alv.

_________________
Five Folbots - Super TSF, two GIIs, Kodiak, Gremlin

Nice to have a ray of light amid all the recent darkness in the folding boat world.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

The economy does not have much to do with it. Things take time, and we are finally ready. We have ordered the first production, and they will get here sometime this winter. First priority is to get ready for PaddleExpo in Nurember Germany - including getting a product sheet done. I should have it on pakboats.com before the end of this month. I think I look forward to the production boats as much as anybody.

Alv

Based on your initial description it seems like a great kayak at a great price. I'm curious to learn more about the assembly and hull materials.

I'm curious: Were there issues with the hull durability on the 135 and 155 models? In the year and half I've had the 155 I've only had to make one fairly minor repair to the hull. As I mentioned in another post, there was a cut on the the front of the bow-keel section I had to repair. This was probably caused by accumulated wear since the area was pretty badly worn down. It was pretty easy to repair, and I added an extra layer of material since that section seem prone to abrasion.

Anyway, I look forward to learning more about the new model.

_________________
Pakboats Quest 155.

'I actually read the Bible quite frequently. Can I tell you why? I stay in a lot of hotels. And I like to scare my kids before bed.' Jon Stewart

We have not had problems with the original material, but we wanted something a bit more "bomb proof". If you lose pressure in one of the lower inflatable tubes, the bottom fabric gets close to the cross ribs, and it can get "pinched" between a cross rib and a rock. In that situation, there is potential for a puncture. The new material has improved puncture resistance as well as abrasion resistance.

Alv

Pakboats.com has been updated. It now shows the Quest 150 under the Touring tab.

Thanks for the update, Alv. I'm looking forward to having a better understanding of the assembly differences between this and the first generation Quests.

I hope you don't mind my saying so, but I think the link to the new 150 on your website is a bit buried. It'd help if you could update the "More about Quest and XT here" link in the "Quest Touring Kayaks" paragraph on your home page, in my opinion.

_________________
Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island

Reading the description and looking at the pix, the Quest 150 looks like a nice improvement of the previous models. Apart from the new hull material, the other improvement seems to be the improved center-area rigidity.

I think it's probably smart to just have one model. The size and capacity would seem to suit a fairly wide range of paddlers, from slightly smaller than average to slightly larger than average.

Good luck with the new model, and I'd like to learn more about how assembly differs from the previous versions.

Addendum: There also seems to be another fairly subtle difference. On the new 150 the back-band appears to be attached directly to the frame rather than the deck as on the previous versions. If this is correct it's a nice feature because it enables the boat to be paddled without a deck in the same manner as it is with a deck.

Of course the previous versions can also be paddled without the deck, but without the back-band for support would not be nearly as comfortable or efficient.

Hmm... While I love my 155, the idea of 'trading it in' for the 150 is enticing.

_________________
Pakboats Quest 155.

'I actually read the Bible quite frequently. Can I tell you why? I stay in a lot of hotels. And I like to scare my kids before bed.' Jon Stewart

A little more about the changes:

We removed the aluminum rods that support the air tubes in the 155. To make this work, we made the air tubes a bit bulkier to give them enough stiffness without frame support. Also reduced the cross rib spacing by an inch to make sure we would not run into any issues with too little support. The new air tube size was adopted from the Puffin Swift that we discontinued a few years ago, so we knew we would be on solid ground (cross rib spacing on the Swift was longer than on the 150).

Removing the air tube support rods reduced the hull stiffness a bit, but that was compensated by increasing the length of the seat side rails to the cross rib in front of and behind the seat. The rods themselves were stiffened by using 3/4" aluminum next to the seat and supporting the normal 5/8" that spans the spaces to the next cross ribs, using 1/2" inserts . The result is more stiffness in the mid section than what we had in the 155. The ends have less frame structure than before, but the stress on the hull is concentrated in the seat area.

Removing the air tube support rods simplified assembly quite a bit. The air tubes are tied to the boat skin just below the gunwales (no elastic ties). After the frame is completely assembled, the top air tube cells can be inflated. This places the bottom cells where they need to be (there are only two cells per side). Inflate the bottom cells, and the assembly is complete.

To make room for the bulkier tubes, we made the bottom 1" wider. This makes the 150 1" wider than the 155 at the waterline. The two boats share the same cross rib set, so the beam at the gunwales is the same on both.

The deck was simplified by removing the two short rods that reach back from each side to the front end of the cockpit.

That is about it.

Alv

"Buried" is putting it politely. The only reason I found it is because I knew what I was looking for. The rest of the website is un-updated and continues to refer to the now-discontinued models.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

Yeah, while I love my Quest 155, to be honest that short-rod deck assembly always seemed unnecessary to me. I forgot to connect them a couple times and didn't really notice much difference. The front of the deck sagged a bit, allowing more water to pool, but this was little more than a minor inconvenience.

The other changes seem pretty sensible. It seems like the 150 will be more durable and easier to assemble than the 155, but will perform similarly otherwise.



As Kerry and I have mentioned more than a few times, we think Pakboats would do well to significantly upgrade their web site and marketing. While I love their yaks and their simple, pragmatic approach, I think sales would be significantly better with a more elaborate, detailed site.

_________________
Pakboats Quest 155.

'I actually read the Bible quite frequently. Can I tell you why? I stay in a lot of hotels. And I like to scare my kids before bed.' Jon Stewart

I am a little surprised by the "buried" comment. The information on the new 150 is on the page where our touring kayak information has always been. Getting there has a little quirky. You need to hover the cursor on the Touring tab, then click on the picture. I'd prefer to get there by clicking on the tab, but this Joomla template does it this way. I added some info on the home page, including a link to the Quest page. Hopefully, that will help some. There will be a couple of pictures later, but it is a bit busy right now, "clearing the decks" to get ready for PaddleExpo in Germany next week.

Your other comments are well taken. Unfortunately, our marketing shortcomings have a lot to do with the people here. We have always been small and focused on product, rather than selling. At least, we are making some progress with product...........

Please don't take my buried comment personally, Alv. I actually think you're doing an amazing job with the product. No one else is pushing the boundaries of rod and air tube folding construction, and coming up with such wonderfully pragmatic solutions!

_________________
Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island