Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:31 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: deck
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:46 am 
Menedem,.....
I have specified a deck without the rear hatch opening and without the axe and shovel pockets. Still waiting to hear back from wayland so I may still change my mind I guess =).

As long as the kayak is well made I am confident I'll be happy regardless the deck configuration.
Btw, I've been wondering how many wayland kayaks that are out there. From my point of view they certainly seem to sit in a sweet spot, as in quite affordable (for wood/hypalon) and at the same time delivering a product probably not too far from klepper, longhaul and nautiraid i.e. long lasting, durable and with expedition qualitites.

I was contemplating going for a Folbot Cooper for a while, which would have ended up costing me almost exactly the same amount. Looks like a lot of kayak/fun for the money too, but my impression was that the Harpoon might last me a longer time and stand up to more abuse, and maybe edge out as far as weeklong trips etc.

Since I have limited experience with kayaks, these thoughts basically come from my own assumptions and information I have read on the web.

It's nice to have experienced people on a forum like this to provide feedback.

Cheers,
/alex


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:21 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Solar wrote: I was contemplating going for a Folbot Cooper for a while, which would have ended up costing me almost exactly the same amount. Looks like a lot of kayak/fun for the money too, but my impression was that the Harpoon might last me a longer time and stand up to more abuse, and maybe edge out as far as weeklong trips etc.

My Cooper has the original, lighter skin, which will not take abuse as well as the 35-40 ounce / sq yard hypalon now used. With the heavier hypalon skin (same as used on Folbot's other boats), the Cooper is a tough expedition kayak, crafted for speed, but with less cargo room than some of the alternatives you are considring. I would imagine cargo capacity might be the major limitation for you, not durability.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: deck
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:26 pm 
Solar wrote:
I was contemplating going for a Folbot Cooper for a while, which would have ended up costing me almost exactly the same amount. Looks like a lot of kayak/fun for the money too, but my impression was that the Harpoon might last me a longer time and stand up to more abuse, and maybe edge out as far as weeklong trips etc.


Polish price is hard to beat. Same as Russian Tritons in aluminum frame group (if buying factory-direct or from dealers in Russia). Though, if I were to decide now between Folbot Cooper and Triton L1, I would go for Cooper with Hypalon skin simply for reasons of assembling and possible future service. Of for Kahuna, or for Fujita 500 (but these two will cost more). Cooper, if its 250 lbs payload is realistic (as it appears to be), can be loaded for a weeklong trip for somebody not heavier than 180-190 lbs, with some supply of fresh water, but not a full water supply for a week. Any 15-ft folder is capable to carry 1-week supply of food and gear (I don't mean BBQ, lawn chairs and similar items). Water is heavy, though. With long and narrow hull the drybags and all the gear will have to be very carefully chosen for optimal filling of the volume, and loading/unloading will be somewhat awkward, - but doable. This is why something with hatches is always better (if hatches are designed properly).


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: deck
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:12 pm 
Solar wrote:
I have specified a deck without the rear hatch opening and without the axe and shovel pockets.


Sounds like a very safe configuration that gets rid of the only known hull trouble spot.

Solar wrote:
As long as the kayak is well made I am confident I'll be happy regardless the deck configuration.


I have been very pleased with the quality of the frame. Skin is also well assembled. Aside from the hatch zipper, I have not had any problems related to the assembly quality.

Solar wrote:
Btw, I've been wondering how many wayland kayaks that are out there.


They mainly sell into local and european markets, and from the discussions that I've seen, their biggest seller is the 2-seater model. Harpoon is fairly new, though, so I do not think there are many out there. They do not have a distributor in US, and people are reluctant to wire money to Eastern Europe, so this probably limits their appeal here. With "globalization", direct-sales model from any country for a largely hand-made, low volume product may be an ideal approach, but trust and perception play a huge role. The timely availability of spare parts and warranty repairs may also pose interesting challenges.

Solar wrote:
From my point of view they certainly seem to sit in a sweet spot, as in quite affordable (for wood/hypalon) and at the same time delivering a product probably not too far from klepper, longhaul and nautiraid i.e. long lasting, durable and with expedition qualitites.


Yes, niche-wise, they do have a very appealing product at a very attractive price.

Harpoon is mostly a copy of AE1, with some modifications. Long Haul is in a class of its own, with its extremely robust construction and stainless steel fasteners. I do not know much about Nautiraid.

Harpoon's payload of over 250 kilos is very impressive, and suitable for long trips. I believe that it is constructed well enough to handle abuse, but only time will tell on this one.

Solar wrote:
I was contemplating going for a Folbot Cooper for a while, which would have ended up costing me almost exactly the same amount. Looks like a lot of kayak/fun for the money too, but my impression was that the Harpoon might last me a longer time and stand up to more abuse, and maybe edge out as far as weeklong trips etc.


Folbot makes good boats. I have looked at Cooper and Kodiak, but very quickly moved on to wood-frame boats, and, eventually to Harpoon. Payload-wise, it is hard to beat in the price range.

Dmitry


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: deck
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:32 pm 
Alm wrote:
Polish price is hard to beat. Same as Russian Tritons in aluminum frame group (if buying factory-direct or from dealers in Russia). Though, if I were to decide now between Folbot Cooper and Triton L1, I would go for Cooper with Hypalon skin simply for reasons of assembling and possible future service.


While price is definitely a factor, Harpoon is really a decent boat that is well made, easy to assemble, and is very nice to paddle. Quality, aside from zippers, is good, and so is the fit and finish. I would not hesitate to say that, overall, quality exceeds the price "perception", that is why the problem with zippers appears even more so disappointing. To me, a new Harpoon can make more sense than a used AE1 (boy, did I open one up here... :twisted: ).

Russian boats are difficult to compare to Cooper, with its anodized aluminum frame, precise metal fittings and connectors, and a quality hull. L1 has good paddling characteristics, but some of the frame assembly issues make it very different from Folbot, to the point where low price may no longer matter.

Dmitry


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: deck
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:49 am 
menedem wrote:
Russian boats are difficult to compare to Cooper, with its anodized aluminum frame, precise metal fittings and connectors, and a quality hull. L1 has good paddling characteristics, but some of the frame assembly issues make it very different from Folbot, to the point where low price may no longer matter.

Dmitry


This was my impression too - with assembling that difficult (in Triton L1) low price becomes irrelevant. Reportedly, latest versions are better - I don't know and not inclined to check. The basic design concept remains the same, so I wouldn't expect much difference. I've mentioned it only because in paddling characteristics it is much closer to Cooper (that you considered), than Harpoon, which is a totally different type of boat.

It's getting a bit off-topic here, as the thread was on Harpoon; anyway - PVC hulls of Triton boats are very good (I suspect, more abrasion-resistant than Folbot Hypalon hulls, but this is one of those endless debates on PVC vs Hypalon); and, unlike Folbots, Tritons have factory-installed protection strips. (Not to mention the first version of Cooper skin, non-Hypalon one, with lower abrasion resistance). Though, I personally prefer more flexible Hypalon to PVC - less chance to develop creases on folded skin over the same period of time. While I have a lot of unpleasant things to say about Triton design and quality control (last models are reportedly better), Folbot precision leaves much to be desired. With loose tolerances, low tension in frames and relatively easy assembling, Folbot seems to concentrate on the ease and affordability of repairs, upgrading and fast service, (service is excellent, btw), rather than on high precision or ruggidness. Multi-piece rib of Cooper is a good example, and has the same flaws as very similar rib of Triton, ironically, better designed than in Cooper, but using a lower grade of plastic in clamps... But here it becomes even more offtopic, so I would better stop there...


Top
  
 
 Post subject: waiting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:02 am 
Payment is made, and now comes the agonizing wait for the kayak to arrive. I expect similar delivery time as for Menedem, so it will be a while until I can provide feedback or a review. Oh well....

The main reason why I was looking at the Cooper was the similar price range, I was however, aware that the kayaks are quite different, which in the end led to the Wayland decision.

Menedem and David - please feel free to share some more photos =)

I ordered a blue Harpoon, with even less pockets than previously mentioned (only paddle pockets), and a spraydeck.
Cheers,
/alex


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: waiting
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:13 pm 
Solar wrote:
Payment is made, and now comes the agonizing wait for the kayak to arrive. I expect similar delivery time as for Menedem, so it will be a while until I can provide feedback or a review. Oh well....

Waiting is tough...
Solar wrote:
Menedem and David - please feel free to share some more photos =)

Are you sure you want to torture yourself? :evil:

I'll be padding again this weekend, I'll take some pics. :twisted:

Dmitry.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:27 am 
I picked up a slight leg injury on Wednesday while doing Jiu-Jitsu,still sore this morning, if there is improvment Saturday I will be paddleing and hopefully take some nice pics.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: still waiting
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:13 am 
bit of a side track.....what kind o jiu jiutsu?


Top
  
 
 Post subject: pics
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 4:14 am 
oh..and thanks for taking photos menedem! Look forward to seeing them..


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:31 pm 
I do Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Krav-Maga.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: pics
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:16 am 
Solar wrote:
oh..and thanks for taking photos menedem! Look forward to seeing them..


Solar,

Here are the pics.

This weekend I paddled the Minneapolis Chain of Lakes. The chain consists of four lakes, in order: Brownie, Cedar, Lake of the Isles and Lake Calhoun. Of these, accessible for put-in are the last three; Lake Brownie is reached by paddling through a long and narrow tunnel underneath the two-tiered railroad/auto bridge.

The Chain of Lakes is located within Minneapolis city limits, and is about twenty minutes away from my house. Cedar Lake is the closest and most convenient put-in point for me, and this is where I started my trip. From the put-in point, I paddled over to Lake Brownie. After a quick visit, I returned to Cedar Lake and proceeded along the eastern shore to the channel that connects Cedar and the Lake of the Isles. From Lake of the Isles, I paddled to Lake Calhoun, which is the largest lake in the chain. There are two beaches each side of that lake that make a convenient stop-over and rest areas. After paddling Lake Calhoun, I turned back and retraced the route back to Cedar Lake.

The Chain of Lakes can make for a nice 3-4 hour paddle, with a total length of between 7 and 8 miles, if all four lakes are visited. My trip took about 3.5 hours, and I covered around 8 miles, with two stop-overs.


Image
Tunnel between Cedar Lake and Lake Brownie

Image
Harpoon on the Lake Calhoun beach

Image
View of downtown Minneapolis from Lake Calhoun


Top
  
 
 Post subject: pics
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:33 am 
Looks like you had some very nice paddling! Can't wait for the kayak to arrive....... Thanks again for posting the pics !
Wayland has been very good as far as customer service so far. I wired the payment over last wednesday and yesterday (monday) I was informed that my harpoon was on it's way....however until it arrives I thought I'd start looking for a paddle and pfd, and other bits and pieces such as floation bags etc.

Menedem, in your review you mentioned that you were using a 220cm paddle, do you feel that it is a good length for you when paddling the harpoon?

Regards,
/alex


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:07 pm 
Very nice looking boat! Do you have any pics of just the frame?

-Andreas


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 70 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group