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 Post subject: Re: pics
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:35 pm 
Solar wrote:
Thanks again for posting the pics !
Wayland has been very good as far as customer service so far. I wired the payment over last wednesday and yesterday (monday) I was informed that my harpoon was on it's way.


You're welcome. I am curious, were they able to give you a tracking number right away? With my order, the tracking number was assigned only after the package cleared customs and was already in US.

Solar wrote:
Menedem, in your review you mentioned that you were using a 220cm paddle, do you feel that it is a good length for you when paddling the harpoon?

Regards,
/alex


The kayak is about 28 inches wide. I am not an expert in picking the paddle length by far, but I think that 220cm is probably the shortest paddle you want to consider.

From what I've been told, paddle length depends on the paddler's height, shoulder width, and the width of the kayak. My figure is somewhat non-standard. Based only on the height, recommended length is about 180. Based on shoulder width, it is 240. I use either 220 or 240, but prefer 220 because of the weight. This applies to either folders or hardshells for me. I've tried paddling with my wife's 180, and ended up using it similar to the Greenland paddle, otherwise my hands kept getting wet.


Dmitry.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:38 pm 
Kaptain von Klepper wrote:
Very nice looking boat! Do you have any pics of just the frame?

-Andreas


There are some in the gallery, in the kayak assembly section. I do not have a good picture of the fully assembled frame, but will try to take one this weekend.

Dmitry.


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 Post subject: re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:39 am 
Menedem,
No tracking number yet, I'll let you know when I get one....I assume the process will be same as it was for you.

I am little bit taller than you (about 180cm , ie. 5ft10), but the info regarding paddle length you supplied is still quite useful, when taking into account our differences in constitution.

As a side note - for my Harpoon expedition I'll end up paying about 2500 $AUD (this is including freight, GST and import taxes, and a spraydeck), a new klepper aerius expedition here in Australia retails for about $6100 and the classic for $4500 (Australian $).

I would love a side by side comparison between an aerius and a Wayland harpoon.
(not saying the wayland would be better or even same quality, but this is quite a difference in price don't you think?)
...anyway, I guess if money didn't matter much I would have ordered a klepper or feathercraft.......
regards,
/alex


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:54 am 
Solar,

I'm the same height as you and I use a 220, although I'm no expert it feels comfortable enough when paddleing.

Regarding quality between the wayland and the Klepper.I've only seen pictures of the AE1,wooden frame, ally catch's, Hypalon hull, synthetic canvas deck and weighs about 65/70lbs these are the same specs as the Wayland.I have found no faults in the construction of the Wayland so I put the price difference down to the cost of living in Poland being a 1/4 of what it is in Germany.

I'm going paddleing in Plymouth sound at the weekend my first time in salt water I will take some pics.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:08 pm 
Just weighed my boat,

Skin: 29.8 lbs
Frame and bag: 41.8 lbs


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 Post subject: Re: re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:48 pm 
Solar wrote:
Menedem,
...
As a side note - for my Harpoon expedition I'll end up paying about 2500 $AUD (this is including freight, GST and import taxes, and a spraydeck), a new klepper aerius expedition here in Australia retails for about $6100 and the classic for $4500 (Australian $).

I would love a side by side comparison between an aerius and a Wayland harpoon.
(not saying the wayland would be better or even same quality, but this is quite a difference in price don't you think?)
...
regards,
/alex


Looks like the prices that you quote are in the ballpark of what the boats end up costing here in US. I would guess that your shipping charges were a bit higher, though.

As for quality, I cannot say. I have not seen any kleppers up close, but would like to, if I can find someone nearby who'd be willing to show me their boat. I can compare with my Pisces, and can say that by most part, Wayland is on par or better. Wayland is definitely faster and easier to assemble than Pisces.

As of now, I've been assembling and disassembling my Harpoon nearly every weekend, and did not run into any issues (other than the ones noted earlier, for legal types 8-) ). I have been happy with its performance, and the "enjoyment level" has been "up there". For the money, I think that it is a good buy.

Dmitry


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:55 pm 
David wrote:
I have found no faults in the construction of the Wayland so I put the price difference down to the cost of living in Poland being a 1/4 of what it is in Germany.


Most likely it comes down to that, and the overall cost of running the business (rent, energy costs, etc.) Whatever other differences are there, they would probably not justify such a dramatic price difference.

David wrote:
I'm going paddleing in Plymouth sound at the weekend my first time in salt water I will take some pics.


Please do, I'd be very much interested in looking at them.

By the way, I've read that UK still has an extensive canal system from days of yonder still in use. Are these canals accessible/usable via a kayak?
[/quote]


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:32 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1230
Location: Anchorage Alaska
I found a 210cm paddled at a high angle ok for the Klepper A2. Mainly because of being seated so deep below the cockpit. For our 27" wide composite double and the rest of my boats, I use a 208 cm Windswift, a 218cm GP a 200cm Lendal and a 196 WW paddle. I will try some single bladed paddles with the Klepper soon and will be raising up the seats..

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:40 am 
tsunamichuck wrote:
I found a 210cm paddled at a high angle ok for the Klepper A2. Mainly because of being seated so deep below the cockpit. For our 27" wide composite double and the rest of my boats, I use a 208 cm Windswift, a 218cm GP a 200cm Lendal and a 196 WW paddle. I will try some single bladed paddles with the Klepper soon and will be raising up the seats..


When I recommisioned my AE II, I tried other paddles by renting etc. Klepper standard is 240 and I was hard pressed to find anything for rent/borrow over 220. The beam of the AE II is 36" and I felt I was using a lot of extra energy with a higher angle, so I settled on a 240. When I acquired the single (28" beam, + coaming 2" lower), I couldn't be bothered immediatly for new paddles, so I continue with 240's. No doubt 210's or 220's would be fine.

Single paddle: My first outing in the single under sail, I briefly tried using a double paddle for auxilary power. This was before I was using airbags, so I still had stowage below decks. (My single doesn't have deck paddle lashings, yet). I had to break the paddle down to sail, etc. Anyway, trying to use a double paddle with a mainsail/boom in your face presents some challenges. Anyway, only 50 yards or so from the quay, I got into a wind shadow and was completely becalmed. I couldn't be bothered to put the paddle together, so I just single paddled. The rudder course corrects, and I found the single paddle much easier to manage with the sail, than the double.

I've been sailing a lot lately, and somehow I contrived to arrive on the water without my paddle one day. Coast Guard regulations require a paddle, but I reckoned lee-boards would easily substitute, so I went out. Well Murphy's law dictates whatever can go wrong, will. I got becalmed about a half mile out. I didn't feel like waiting an eternity for the wind to pick up, so I unbolted one of the lee-board blades (would this be a single Greenland paddle? :lol: ) and paddled in. This works fine incidently, but isn't as efficient as a regular single paddle.
I'm halfway through mounting the additional D-rings to my deck to facilitate lashing paddles. These same deck mounts would allow me to stow the sail rig on my deck in case of an expedition in which I'd like to paddle & sail.

-Andreas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:45 pm 
Menedem,

I didn't get to go paddling at the weekend the wind was F5 gusting F6/7 lots of squalls. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this weekend.

There are a lot of canals in the UK these can all be paddled providing you have third party insurance or are a member of the BCU. The problem we have in the England is with the rivers which we are not allowed to paddle on, unless they are tidal and only then can we go up to the tidal reach.Scotland is ok for paddling new access laws have been passed recently. I think Wales is similar to Scotland but I'm not sure about this.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:17 pm 
Kaptain,

I bought a sail kit with my boat but I havn't tried it out yet.I was wondering what the upper limit in wind speed would be where I'm not going to damage the boat or more importantly me? The design is a basic down wind rig, twin jib with a couple of whisker poles, similar to a twistle rig but with out the swivles and furler. I've done a fair bit of sailing but only in a Bermuda rigged long keeler, which weighs 13000lbs and needs 15 knots to get going. The thought of hoisting a sail on a 70 pounder gives me the willies.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 6:48 pm 
David wrote:
I bought a sail kit with my boat but I havn't tried it out yet.I was wondering what the upper limit in wind speed would be where I'm not going to damage the boat or more importantly me? The design is a basic down wind rig, twin jib with a couple of whisker poles, similar to a twistle rig but with out the swivles and furler. I've done a fair bit of sailing but only in a Bermuda rigged long keeler, which weighs 13000lbs and needs 15 knots to get going. The thought of hoisting a sail on a 70 pounder gives me the willies.


Twistle Rig
Image

So much depends on the size of the sail, the size of your boat, -especially it's beam.
My first image of what you are describing is what my boat would look like with a double full sized jib. This would be a full 3 m2, which would be a lot of sail for the single. For me, this size described, 15 knots, F4 would start to feel uncomfortable. I'd expect my boat to start surfing in a following sea with the bow tucking under at regular intervals. The twistle rig is mostly designed for down wind and broad reach. Any attempt at beam reach would probably turn the boat over.
I'd recommend using a rig like this only if it can be adequately reefed. If it could be reefed down to 1 m2, one might be able to stand up to 25 knots, but again, beam reach would probably result in a knock down.

Keep in mind that a small boat's gale can be a larger boat's moderate breeze.

I'm supposing your rig is probably more similar to Klepper's now discontinued M1. Klepper Sails I'm not sure if this can be reefed or not. The closest I've come to something similar was to use a golf umbrella on my AE II :lol: For this I had about a 20 knot wind and it was all I could do to keep the brolly from going inside out. I had some surfing action, but the doubles don't seem to tuck the bow under like the singles do.
There maybe someone on the forum that has actually tried the Klepper M1 and is more familiar with it's capabilities.
If your boat is at all similar to a Klepper, I don't think you really have to worry about damaging yourself or the kayak unless you come in contact with another object; beach, rocks, boats, etc. (Heaven forbid a nasty shore break!)
You have some sailing experience in larger boats so some of this will seem like common sense. The main thing is:
1. Being able to dowse the sail if things get to feeling uncomfortable. Nothing is quite as scary as being on a wild ride with no way to stop. The rule of thumb is if you wonder if you should reef (or dowse), -you should.
2. Being able to exit the cockpit if the boat is turned over, which stands to reason with or with out the sail.
3. Having the proper clothing to keep warm if exposed to the water is imparative. (Is that the Irish Sea you're on? -Brrr!!!)
4. Making sure you can bail your boat fast and effectively. I use a 1 l jug, bottom cut out, tethered to the frame. This is best used while I'm still outside the cockpit. A pump works well if you need to bail while in the boat. If the boat is already swamped getting in to bail will be cumbersome and will leave you with almost no freeboard, meaning the water you are bailing will run back in.
5. So you don't need to bail too much water, use air bags (or dry bags if you're expeditioning). Since I've started using airbags, my boat hasn't been swamped in the couple knock downs since.
6. This takes practice but really isn't that difficult: Getting back into the boat after a ditching. With my double, I can just pop over the gunwale. On the single I pop up over the stern section and then sit astride. If you've ever bare back mounted a pony, it's the same method. The next bit has to be done very quickly: Move yourself forward to where you can drop your backside into the cockpit. I've managed to go in feet first, but I have to move quickly to keep from turning a tender boat over. This is only because I have lee-boards which make the backside first option more difficult.

I hope this helps. Alex or Chris (or anyone else), please feel free to add anything.

-Andreas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:47 am 
Kaptain,

I measured the sail it's 2.4m by 1.4m triangle, there is reinforcing at the head,tack and clew of the sail but no sail tape between the head and the tack, I feel this is an over sight and plan to rectify this.The mast is unstayed apart from the forestay which the sail is attached too, not a good idea for a down wind rig. I plan to add a backstay so the mast will be balanced, I could probably get away without the backstay but I'm a belt and braces type and will feel safer by adding one.

I agree that being able to spill the wind is an important point, having no reefing system the best option for me is to drop the forestay.The sheets could be cast off for the same effect and would stop the sail being blown over the bow but unless I fit a rope clutch this could prove to be dangerous.

I'm not on the Irish sea but the English Channel which can be equally as cold,fortunately I have an ocean dry-suit which I use for sailing, this will keep me warm for a couple of hours when in the water at winter temperatures. I know that I'm going to have a lot of capsizes being a newbie to this sport and plan to practice exiting and entering this weekend. Thanks for the tips about the stern cowboy mount and 1l jug for bailing, I got fore and aft floatation bags when I bought my paddle and PFD so hopefully I wont have too much bailing to do.

Many thanks,
David.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:12 pm 
David: This is a really big sail! Does it hank to the forestay? This could be really inconvenient if you suddenly need to dowse the sail.
The kayaks are extremely tender and reaching forward can only be done from the cockpit. If you can't reach the hanks on the forstay, you can't put the sail away. It could still catch wind (or waves).

Your rig sounds like it could be very useful for long range down wind or broad reach sailing, but if it were me, I'd be supporting the mast with stays on the side. (Without any stays there's risk of the mast lifting away). If the sail needs to be attached to a stay, I'd run one seperate line from the forestay, running from the head to the clew for reinforcement. This would clip to the halyard at the head and at the clew to a continuous outhaul line run on a block from the bow, where the forestay would normally attach.
This would allow you to bring the entire sail into the kayak by reaching no more forward than the mast, increasing your comfort in tempermental conditions.

Notice the sail in the above illustration has reef points. If you could install reef points on your sail it wouldn't have to necessarily be an either or situation. :?:

-Andreas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 10:35 am 
Andreas,

There is no actual forestay, the halyard hanks on to the head and a short strop at the bow hanks on to the tack of the sail, when the halyard is tensioned this acts like a forestay. I agree that casting off the halyard would cause the sail to end up overboard but if I attach an extra line to the head and lead this line to the cockpit I should be able to haul the sail in at the same time as I drop the halyard, with a few turns on the sail it could then be lashed to the deck.As long as the halyard is long enough to remain threaded through the mast head roller and remain in the cockpit so the sail can be rehoisted I cant see any problems apart from having an unstayed mast. What do you think?


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