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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:30 pm 
Aquabound isn't bad, costs much less than Camano, and both will weigh the same in fiberglass version. 4-piece Aquabound isn't as good as 2-piece, and any 4-piece paddle isn't. Extra hole near the blade lets the water into the shaft and provides for more "play" in the joints. The only reason why I would get a 4-piece could be for flying. But with a sail-rig I have to carry another long bag anyway, and 2-piece paddle fits there nicely, wrapped with a sleeping foam all around, so I don't have to use a 4-piece.

Frame of PE480 isn't all fiberglass - ribs are plywood. The number of ribs (i.e. spacing between them) makes a difference in rigidity. Still, I don't think it is same stiff as Feathercrafts - due to flexible fiberglass rods and less tension in frame.

Speaking of ribs and spacing: when I wrote about 43" and 49" floatation bags that I wouldn't buy them until after I've got the boat - I meant, after I've got the boat and made a few trips. Then it will become clear how much spare room you have. It is hardly possible that room behind last stern and bow rib is 43" or longer, so these bags will protrude towards the cockpit beyond those last ribs, consuming a lot of precious cargo room. On day-trip it may work, but on a week-long trip - may be not.


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 Post subject: Hi, Alex...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:14 pm 
I hope going for the four piece paddle setup isn't a mistake. Being able to pack the paddles in the boat bag seems like a highly desirable feature for possible future air travel.

As for frame construction, believe me, I've really given the Fujita frame images a close inspection. There's a rectangular section that fits into the floor of the cockpit that suggests that one could actually stand up in the 480ex (but not hop up and down too much :P ).

I'll hold off on the bags until I've set the frame up and made measurements. But I won't take the yak out, even on a calm lake, until I've got the bags fitted and in place. Always expect the worst, eh?

Oh, and it will be no more than day trips until next year. Gotta just get out and work on basic paddling skills and wet re-entry. I think that I'll do the wet work before the snow flies.

BTW, a lake that has interested me for years is Lake Chelan in Washington. It's about 55 long and skinny miles. It cuts into the Cascades on the eastern slopes and looks like a great place to paddle. But I'd guess that there would be some heavy westerly wind potential.

You know any thing about said lake?


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 Post subject: Re: Hi, Alex...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Byron Walter wrote:
BTW, a lake that has interested me for years is Lake Chelan in Washington. It's about 55 long and skinny miles. It cuts into the Cascades on the eastern slopes and looks like a great place to paddle. But I'd guess that there would be some heavy westerly wind potential.
Freaking wind tunnel for wind either direction, with few and far between beaches. Mostly vertical, rough shoreline. The only portions I'd consider paddling would be up near Stehekin. Been up and down it maybe half a dozen times, on the steamer that serves Stehekin and Holden, etc. Beautiful place, A much better place for paddling is Owyhee Lake in Oregon. Google it up. Best in May/early June when it is full and not boiling hot.

The Columbia River has terrific paddling, below Rainier.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 5:23 pm 
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
Yes they do get a little loose, but for travel, they are great. If you get into this like a few of us have, you will be buying new paddles before long :+)

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
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Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
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 Post subject: Re: Hi, Alex...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:53 pm 
Byron Walter wrote:
I hope going for the four piece paddle setup isn't a mistake. Being able to pack the paddles in the boat bag seems like a highly desirable feature for possible future air travel.


I worried about this as well. I don't regret it but:

The Werner Camano (last year before the foam core/spine) is not as nice of a four piece paddle, collects water at the ends, has some play. The buttons have begun to corrode a bit, but I'm hard on gear.

I aslo have a Lendal it's a joy, collects water at the ends but not as much as the Werner, when locked it's solid, unlocked on par with the Werner, a tad looser maybe.

Both are very packable, the Lendal is certianly higher quality.


Last edited by warren on Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Lerner Paddle?????
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
You must mean Wendal paddles :+)

_________________
Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:27 pm 
Oooops. Sorry, asleep at the keyboard. Edited to make sense.....


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 Post subject: Re: Hi, Alex...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:04 am 
Byron Walter wrote:
I hope going for the four piece paddle setup isn't a mistake. Being able to pack the paddles in the boat bag seems like a highly desirable feature for possible future air travel.

Win some, lose some. Unless you're retired ex-colonel or senior manager, flying more than once or twice a year is a problem due to either time or money restrictions. And the rest of the year you'll have to put up with those drawbacks of 4-piece. Not a disaster, for sure.

Byron Walter wrote:
There's a rectangular section that fits into the floor of the cockpit that suggests that one could actually stand up in the 480ex

It is to step-in (when getting into the boat), rather than to stand up. Only in doubles you can stand up, and in very wide singles, which PE480 is not.

Byron Walter wrote:
I'll hold off on the bags until I've set the frame up and made measurements. But I won't take the yak out, even on a calm lake, until I've got the bags fitted and in place.

Not to worry... With internal sponsons and some drybags it will not sink without floatation bags even if completely swamped. You will be even able to get in (if you know how to get in with a paddle-float), but not to paddle until after you've bailed out most of water. Besides, Fujitas have a seasock option - I would go for it. For me (and I suspect for many others) it would be too much of temptation not to take it for a spin in the very first weekend after the delivery, even without floatation bags. Floatation bags should be a bit wider than the available room with sponons inflated, but not much longer than the measured spacing.


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 Post subject: Yakers...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 12:46 pm 
Dave,

Your Lake Chelan report confirms what I suspected. I remember seeing the lake on a map years ago and felt that it would be fascinating to travel from the southeast back up into the northwest. I will do a search on Owyhee Lake. I do know a kayaker in Oregon that might be interested in that trip.

TC & Warren,

It's not nice, you people laughin' at my four-piece paddle. My paddle don't like people laughin'. The paddle gets this crazy idea that you're laughin'at it.

Now if you will apologize, like I'm sure you will, I might be able to convice the paddle that you really didn't mean it...

...wait... sorry.... spaghetti western flashback.

Anyhow, all the paddles that I've used to this point have been rental beaters. My last rental paddle was a two-piecer that was held together with electrical tape and no drip rings. Well okay, there was one drip ring. So I expect that I'll be plenty happy with the new sticks for a good spell.

Alex,

I iz gonna stand up in that critter, just to see what happens. As for seasocks, Mike, the Fujita guy, doesn't use one and suggested to try the boat without one first. As for float bags, I intend to always use 'em (if not packed for camping) no matter what. I intend to make it a habit, just like when I biked, I always wore a helmet, even if I was just tesing a fix on a one-block ride. I need all the good habits I can get as I have plenty of bad ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Yakers...
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:08 pm 
Byron Walter wrote:
I iz gonna stand up in that critter, just to see what happens.


You'd better get a paddle-leash and paddle-float before you do, 'cause I think I know what happens :-) ....


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 Post subject: Re: Yakers...
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:00 pm 
[quote="Alm"]
You'd better get a paddle-leash and paddle-float before you do, 'cause I think I know what happens :-) ....[/quote]

Betcha I don't... I'm counting on my kungfu powers.

And if I do take a swim, I will fess up 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:15 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:14 pm
Posts: 51
Location: Boulder CO
Hi Byron!

Having owned regularly used a 480 on SF Bay Area waters for the past 3 1/2 years, I guess that I should add my comments. I think you will find the boat a worthy craft - particularly since they are now welding the hull / deck seams, which used to be the only downside of the design. We also happen to be close in physical size, so the cockpit mods I’ve made should work for you.

As for flex, a skin on frame boat, folding or not, will have some, depending on the number of stringers and their material and the length between ribs. A certain small percentage of go-power will be absorbed by the frame, but what you get in return is a very responsive feel of your seagoing environment, which I have missed on the few occasions that I have paddled a hardshell. In the real world, I can cruise at the same rate as all but the most rabid of paddlers and the boat tracks well at speed without a rudder, though the FC strap-on skeg is useful for the big winds to be found most afternoons on the Bay.

Yes, there are handy floorboards in Fujitas and it is possible to carefully and briefly stand up in the boat. I usually launch “bicycle style” - one foot on the floorboard, shove off and slide slowly into the cockpit on my arms. Sure to cause a stir at hardshell-heavy put-ins...

Get the FC float bags - the stock bags lasted a few weeks, the Seattle Sport bags lasted a few months, all failing from abrasion against the frame. The FC bags have lasted years with no appreciable wear, and its easy to install a grommet in the tip of the overbag to secure the bags to the frame - see 480 assembly pics on this site. The FC butterfly cart is a good fit and will store in the boat if desired.

Cockpit mods: The seatback hit my PFD (Extrasport Saber) and was a little “laid back” - it was easily trimmed (sewing machine and coping saw for the fiberglass insert) to just above the cockpit coaming and by moving the seat cushion velcro anchors a bit, I was able to tweak the seatback more upright. The forward cockpit rib rubbed annoyingly at my calves - solved with the addition of some foam pipe insulation which also found its way to the center cockpit rib, adding a bit more thigh support - see assembly pics, outfitting section. I also added a pair of North Water interior cockpit bags which mount with added web loops to the hinged gunwale bars on either side of the seat. When filled with essentials, the bags provide a very good lateral lock. A quick and dirty glove compartment was made from a small REI mesh stuffsack. I don’t use a sea sock. I did find a 3/8” closed cell foam sleeping pad that has 4-way channels embossed in it which was cut to fit the floor of the “cargo bays” - less wear on the hull, and drybags out of the bilge water...

I’ve found that flat, envelope style dry bags fit the boat best. I use three large and numerous small ones with a typical camping load. The North Water peaked deck bag, which I use with a camping load, is a perfect fit. The NRS Monterey skirt also fits the boat perfectly.

My current paddle is a Lendal Kinetic Tour, 220. with leash. I tend towards a moderately slow, moderately powerful, fairly low angle long-haul cadence. I would like to spend some time with a Greenland paddle...

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larrybluhm
Boulder, CO
Fujita/FoldingCraft 480


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:14 pm
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Location: Boulder CO
Further note on Lendal paddles: The "padlock" set screw feature on the spring buttons makes for a very solid assembly with absolutely no play when tightened down fully.

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larrybluhm
Boulder, CO
Fujita/FoldingCraft 480


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 Post subject: Thank You, Larry
PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:35 am 
Once I've received my boat I will undoubtly be coming back to review your post for mods. But first I'll have to check and see where I have issues with fit and comfort.

Mike of Fujita has already placed an order for the paddles (one Werner and the backup AquaBound). Primary paddle 230 and backup (I believe) is mabye 215?

I'm at work so gotta go for now...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:19 am 
Not really relevant to the thread (and in no way to rebut Larry's info) - but this blue sleeping foam sucks, literally. Works as a sponge (and then takes time to dry out, otherwise it prevents the hull from drying). I kept a folded (not rolled) blue foam on the seat of ny FC Kahuna (too much gear, food and water, not enough room under decks). Whatever water got in (luckily there wasn't much), found ot s way into the foam. It particularly absorbs water through the edges. Those other types of more dense foam absorb less water - less pores.


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