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 Post subject: Wayland II
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:12 pm 
I've paddle a "Wayland II" called "Emma". They's built also in Poland.
Some infos here : http://www.wayland.net2000.pl/

My own experience here (only in german :cry: ) :

http://andremicheel.homepage.t-online.de/Emma.html

Regards André


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 7:54 pm 
Translating with Yahoo isn't a problem (the link below should open translated version, quite readable) :
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/language/ ... fEmma.html

Yahoo always translates RZ96 (Pouch double) as "computer center 96" :-)... Also, it's better to read a description of the boat on Wayland website (it has English version), otherwise it's hard to conceive that "paddle owner", inluded in the price, is a "paddle holder" - a pocket on the deck :-).
You are right, it looks like a mix of Pouch and Klepper. Weight shown on the website is probably a "net" weight, with a seat only (or may be without a seat). Klepper also shows net weight on their website.

Alex.


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 Post subject: Wayland / Aerius
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:47 am 
I see Wayland skins are being sold as replacements for Aerius II frames here http://www.faltboote-kraus.de/, so presumably they are very close in design - (pure coincidence, I'm sure :) )


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:07 pm 
I had a chance to see a Wayland double last night. I was very pleasantly surprised by the high quality and finish of it. Very impressive. Unfortunately I could only look, since it's in our club kayak lock-up. I'm not very familiar with Klepper construction, but from memory, a lot of the details looked eerily Klepper-esque.

I'd love to get one out on the water.

Nohoval


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 Post subject: weyland 11
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2006 2:27 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1101
Location: isles of scilly UK
weyland have a webb site http://www.wayland.net2000.pl the boats are very much klepper type, look nice and have all the accessories, the masts are wood as klepper were once, the prices are somewhat lower than klepper but then of course theirs shipping and import taxes etc. the site lists a dealer in CALGARY CANADA but I don,t know if he,s activly dealing in the boats. I,d like to see one as I have a klepper. the wayland site is english with some parts in polish can,t work out why they did,nt make it all english for we who can,t read polish.


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 Post subject: weyland 11
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2006 12:50 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1101
Location: isles of scilly UK
WEYLAND KAYAKS are available from the dealer in calgary canada. the prices are $2100 for a single , $2500 for a double, I expect spray covers are extra, but I,m sure they are worth looking at if anyone want,s a klepper type for almost the price if a klepper skin.( these prices were quoted on the entry date.)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:52 am 
Well... I wish them all the best; though it's hard to believe that it is better made than Klepper or Longhaul boats. Nothing is perfect, though. I had to do quite a lot of mods and small improvements on LH single. Aluminum locks on Waland kayaks look different from both Klepper and LH. This polish Traper is identical in size to Klepper AE1 (LH single is longer, closer to Klepper SL1), so if somebody were to buy AE1, Traper might do as well, who knows...


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 Post subject: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 2:33 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1101
Location: isles of scilly UK
thanks for your comments I was,nt trying to suggest wayland kayaks were as good a quality as klepper as I have never seen one. I bought my first klepper 30 years ago after reading a comparison on klepper and other foldups which were available at that time. klepper stood out then as the best, quality wise, people told me I could buy a real sail boat for the price of a klepper. I never regretted it, the klepper lasted well, this year I bought a new skin from the klepper importer in CALGARY , klepper owners in CANADA should check with him for service etc as import duties can push U.S. prices higher allthough the current exchange rate is good. wayland is an alternative to the other foldups at perhaps a lower price. though folbot may be even lower.


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 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:59 pm 
john allsop wrote:
I bought my first klepper 30 years ago after reading a comparison on klepper and other foldups which were available at that time. klepper stood out then as the best, quality wise, people told me I could buy a real sail boat for the price of a klepper. I never regretted it, the klepper lasted well, this year I bought a new skin from the klepper importer in CALGARY , klepper owners in CANADA should check with him for service etc as import duties can push U.S. prices higher allthough the current exchange rate is good. wayland is an alternative to the other foldups at perhaps a lower price. though folbot may be even lower.


30 years ago quite possibly that Klepper was the best. Folbot in its current aluminum-frame version didn't exist back then (they were selling kits for non-foldable wooden boats). Folbot GII was introduced 18 years ago, and was their first foldable kayak, if I'm not mistaken. It costs now about $2500 without extras - same as Wayland double. It is interesting to read sometimes references to Folbot as the oldest folding kayak company, - because I haven't seen any foldable Folbot manufactured prior to GII. Feathercrafts have longer history - 27 years or so, but 30 years ago there wasn't probably anything available better than Klepper, speaking of quality. Right now - hard to tell. I'm convinced that today there is no match to FC in quality, - but it has frame material different from Klepper, wood can not be machined as precise as metal, and needs more parts, and packs less compactly, and open cockpit has its pros and cons no matter what company, and then again the issue - mostly as mere possibility - of "frozen" aluminum frames in cold and salt waters (they are very stiff in FC, under much tension) VS wooden frames, etc, etc.
Reportedly, Fujitas have been manufactured for about a century, but were not sold anywere but Japan until recently, so they were not really available - and I don't how good were their models 30 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:32 am 
Alm wrote:
Folbot in its current aluminum-frame version didn't exist back then (they were selling kits for non-foldable wooden boats). Folbot GII was introduced 18 years ago, and was their first foldable kayak, if I'm not mistaken.


I think Folbot quit selling kits and non-folding boats about 18 or so years ago, but have been making folders throughout their history. My first folding kayak was a 1967 Folbot Square Stern - some pictures of it mostly assembled and in pieces are in my photo gallery on the main site. The boat had wooden floorboards and ribs with aluminum longerons. It weighed about a 100# and was 14 feet long, about four feet wide.

Photos are here - http://foldingkayaks.org/gallery/Red-Folbot
Much information about pre-1990 Folbots can be found here -
http://www.folbotforum.com/viewforum.php?f=24

My experience with this admittedly very old boat is one of the reasons I seem to prefer wood-framed boats. Heavy, but consistent ease of assembly, has been my experience with a Pouch E68.

Those Waylands that've been appearing on Ebay look interesting, but I don't really like the bulging, baglike pockets on the decks, although the sleeves for shovel and anchor look like they might be useful.

Happy Motoring,

Chris


Last edited by Christov_Tenn on Wed May 24, 2006 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:57 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Alm wrote:
Reportedly, Fujitas have been manufactured for about a century, but were not sold anywere but Japan until recently, so they were not really available - and I don't how good were their models 30 years ago.


FujitaCanoe says they've been around since the late 40s, if I recall their sales literature correctly. I can't say anything about the older models-- I saw one of them, once-- not up to the Klepper offering.
Are you saying that Japan is "not really" "anywhere"? That would be quite a strange statement, to put it kindly.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:26 pm 
chrstjrn wrote:
Are you saying that Japan is "not really" "anywhere"?


I was saying that Fujitas were "not really" available 30 years ago, - anywhere beyond Japan. It is still very rare in the USA, though now it has a dealer there (at least one that I know of).

Christov_Tenn wrote:
My first folding kayak was a 1967 Folbot Square Stern - some pictures of it mostly assembled and in pieces are in my photo gallery on the main site. The boat had wooden floorboards and ribs with aluminum longerons. It weighed about a 100# and was 14 feet long, about four feet wide.


No wonder I haven't seen a pre-1980 Folbot kayak :-) .... This dimensions would be appropriate for some decent sailing dinghy or rowing boat. But I don't see these photos in the Photo Gallery - or may be they are somewhere else.

Yes, consistency of wooden frames assembling, low tension and predictable timing, - this is correct. Bilge water in the boat is pretty cosistent too ;-)... FC singles take more efforts tu put together and more prone to time-consuming mistakes during asssembling, (but are suprisingly fast to break apart, faster than my LH single). For anything longer than a daytrip, and up to 5-7 days, in conditions where double is not needed, I would rather use FC Kahuna or even K1 - the first one takes same time to assemble as LH1 (and faster to dissemble), the second one takes about 10 minutes longer to put together than LH1, and both are faster on water than LH1, much lighter, pack more compact, sprayskirt on fiberglass coaming works better than "standard" skirt on LH (easy to close and open, doesn;t restrict torso rotation, and doesn't leak in bad weather, being under the PFD and having less sagging in front), and they are totally dry inside if used with seasocks. Besides, with 25" beam of FC singles (and Fujita) I can still use a Greenland paddle, which I've come to like more than Euro, - less tiresome. Fujita singles are very interesting - not much information, but appears that they are easier to put together than FC boats of same size, slightly smaller in beam width, and quality is not bad at all - again, from what I know, rudder system isn't as good as in FC. Not enough statistics yet - may be there is more in Japanese language materials.

I suspect that open-cockpit FC Klondike would beat LH2 and AE2 in the same parameters (except for assembling time) with huge margins - at least on 6-7 day trips with 2 people (it has less volume and capacity than wooden doubles). For solo paddling it should be enough for more than 10 days of self-supported trip (even with full supply of fresh water). Except for fishing, I can imagine very few occasions when extra 3" of width of wooden LH2/AE2 and therefore more initial stability, more freedom of movement around the cockpit - would become absolutely mandatory for successful trip, despite heavier weight and slower speed.


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 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND 11
PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:16 pm 
Alm wrote:
No wonder I haven't seen a pre-1980 Folbot kayak :-) .... This dimensions would be appropriate for some decent sailing dinghy or rowing boat. But I don't see these photos in the Photo Gallery - or may be they are somewhere else.


I've edited the previous post with links to the photos, etc.

You're not wrong - it came with a lateen sail-rig, rudder, boards, etc. My wife hated the boat and refused to ever have anything to do with it again after that first day on the water. I offered the boat for free on the Folbot forum to anyone who would come and get it, but I wound up selling it to a guy who offered to pay shipping and pay me to pack it for shipping. Worked out o.k.

I think if I had the boat now, I'd've kept it and persevered with repairs and hull-stretching, but then I just wanted something I could use immediately.

Bilge-water - yeah - even with an old sea-sock and inexpensive sprayskirt, I manage to get that bilge-water in the boat :x

Chris


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 4:15 am 
Christov_Tenn wrote:
I've edited the previous post with links to the photos, etc.

Now I see it. It looked almost like any other wooden frame double kayak, until I looked at the photo from the stern with a paddler inside. No wonder you were using a canoe paddle. I wouldn't sell any functional boat as long as have enough storage room, and usually don't even throw anything away until have to move to another place. Bad habit too.
About those wooden frames.... I've been thinking, and thinking... I like how it looks. But can't help feeling that this is it - it's only merit. One other merit could be the fact that wooden frame floats, so, hypothetically, totally swamped Klepper or LH will have more floatation than, say, FC K1 or Kahuna. But this mechanics isn't clear to me. With so much volume inside AE1 or LH1, and with water absorbed by the cotton (and by the wood too) - I should do this test to see it. Water here doesn't warm up until mid-August, and even then isn't really warm for this kind of play. Mark Ekhart at LH has switched to synthetic skins lately, as I understand - and probably he is right. I also think that hybrid-frame Fujita 500 will fare better than both LH and FC when swamped - ribs are plywood, composite rods are light too, and not much volume to fill inside the narrow hull.
May be, FC could fill aluminum tubes with foam, like on Balogh mast and crossbar. Just an idea. This would provide aluminum frame with same or better floatation than wooden frames. It should be quite flexible, though. More rubber than a foam. Rigid foam would crack when frame tubes bend, and will start shifting back and forth inside, while softer foam would absorb water - so eventually the idea might not work.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:04 am 
You could test the amount of flotation the wooden frame provides by putting the disassembled frame in water and leaning on it. I suspect it doesn't provide a signifigant amount of flotation since wood is not very buoyant. The only flotation worth the name is air - in sealed chambers.

Nohoval


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