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 Post subject: das boot! Pionier 520 Z
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:45 pm 
here she is.. Pionier 520 z. first time she has been outside since 1988 when we moved to AZ. so were thinking thats a dealer plate or import plate? wood is gorgeous, the frame is very "tight", ridgid when i pick her up. the upperskin is flawless. lower needs work. new skin is not an option. I have been researching gacoflex hypalon, and i think im gonna attempt that route. if there is any reason not to do this, i am all ears.

I was fiddleing with the sails this morning and alot of head scratching too. if anyone has any info on the assembly of the sails, or maybe some good pictures it would be greatly appreciated.

I'm having a lot of difficulty finding information on this boat. google translates the faltboote site ok, so i have been getting some good info there. Its just slow going.

I have been watching vids of folding sailboats on youtube, and im really getting the itch. Really excited about getting this project going.
thank you guys for your assistance. maybe we will see eachother on the water oneday :wink:


also, is it worth the risk of using it? should it be preserved somewhere?


thank you
vance


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Last edited by vdubvance on Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:02 pm 
more pics


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:23 pm 
Lucky you ! I'd like to see it with all sails on.


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:16 pm 
Faltboote website is the way to go. You won't find many US owners of this boat. Just place the mast etc where it belongs and you'll see some fixtures to attach it. (or will find them missing or broken). That round plug in the fore cockpit end apparently covers the "mast collar", open the plug and shove the mast in. Don't see any steering controls like pedals or yoke, except for that big metal yoke, which looks more like a "thwart" to hold 2 small leeboards rather than a steering control part. Yes, they sail, but... many, many "buts" here. Slower than a small sailboat, less stable (to a degree that becomes scary on a windy day with all sails up), less capability to go upwind or "tack" (turn through the wind). All kayaks are like that, - they aren't sailboats... But they sail... Even turkeys fly on a windy day, you know :-) ...

But don't worry about all this before you try the skin for leaks.


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:43 pm 
Thank you alm, you have been most informative. Yes the ''yoke" holds the leeboards which i have, and have never been mounted. i have the pedals and the rudder controls all appear intact.

another question i have, in the picture where i have everything laid out, there are four square shaped boards. i know the two on the right are the seats. what are the other two? they have a little "reverse" latch on them.


thank you
vance


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:01 am 
vdubvance wrote:
in the picture where i have everything laid out, there are four square shaped boards. i know the two on the right are the seats. what are the other two? they have a little "reverse" latch on them.

I wish I knew. Could be floor boards or hiking-out seats (to sit on boards while sailing). If the frame feels solid without these parts and isn't falling apart, then you don't need them - at least, for paddling.


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:33 pm 
Maybe used on the side of the seats as this pic shows? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2122


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:02 pm 
The unknown parts you had asked for, as i can see from here, they are the seats of a Klepper folding kayak.
regards, Frank


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 11:05 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1099
Location: isles of scilly UK
The Historic Canoe and Kayak Association would be very interested in your boat and receiving photos.They are based in the UK but membership is world wide, if i remember correctly there are three members in Canada and two in the USA. In their publication "Paddles Past" issue No (#) 51 there is a copy of the 1960 US Pionier catalog and the history of the Pionier Co , your boat with the three sails is there , not good pictures but better than none, all of this you will find of great interest.


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:53 pm 
Here is a list of Pionier (founded 1925):

http://typen.faltboot.de/f0021_werft.php

but not completed yet. The 520 Z was built from circa 1950 to 1970.
The pictured 520 Z from that list is one of the very last edition, the "Traveller", which is not as good as your boat, cheaper built in the late 60s/early70s, in times when people preferred hardshell kayaks and producing folding kayaks was a dying business.


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:57 am 
WOW i was cleaning out my faves and found you guys!
check it out, she floats! still too chickenshit to take her under sail...

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:25 pm 
That is some sailboat. How's the gray/silver hull holding up?


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:17 am 
Right on! Cristov, just checked out the thread on your 450. Sweet score! saw the pionier for $200 and my heart jumped my throat! checked the date and was like "bummer!" Ive been looking for a single lately.... but hell yeah, you have a really nice little boat there. I would really like to see how she handles.

The skin holds up pretty good. Ive paddled around our local lake a few times and maybe after about an hour i noticed a little water build up, but could be due to spray, nothing that alarmed me. The skin seems brittle and hard when dry, but in the water, softens up real nice and seems very sturdy. im still really conscientious and kinda anal about it. i got this fear of stabbing one of the brass tips of an oar through the hull!

I paddled solo with a couple cool chicks in hardshells and kept up alright. that was a great day! im nowhere near as nimble as those little things but the rudder makes up for a lot. When paddling tandem, she flys... i mean i have no basis for comparison, but get a rhythm going, without smacking each others oars, we haul ass!

Im able to stand up and flyfish out of her no problem, and while sitting, shes stable as a rock.
The fishing was awesome! I stand with my foot on the rudder peddle and drift down the bank at an angle. Didn't catch nothing worth mentioning, but had a blast none the less. The day the pic of me and my buddy was a cool day too. We trecked across the lake with his wife in-tow on an inflatable pool lounger. We took up residence in this nice little cove and Sarah busts out some of those little folding chair umbrellas. clamped perfectly to my seatbacks. didn't leave that spot for the rest of the day. Lol we would get hung up on the bushes fishing, and be like "Sarah! unhook me please!" and she would float over and untie it...ahhh good times

I dont think they had 6'4" in mind when they built these boats, so for me shes a little uncomfortable on longer paddles. Thats the only thing i got on this boat. Im having a blast learning and love this boat dearly. I'm stoked to be a part of this boats history.

One of these days when Im at the lake, if I see someone with a sailboat, I'm gonna ask em to give me a crash course on sailing. then maybe get my feet wet. Going downwind should be no prob, its getting back that worries me!


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:03 am 
vdubvance wrote:
i got this fear of stabbing one of the brass tips of an oar through the hull!


Great post, Vance, and cool boat that!

Yeah, watch those paddle tips on the canvas. I've replaced my Klepper paddles with other wood breakdown paddles because those slightly jagged tips on the originals make me jumpy.

Happy paddling.

PK


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 Post subject: Re: das boot!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:31 am 
Thanks PK!

another thing that scares me...
I've heard the stories. And every time I install the rudder, I picture myself dropping it, As it flutters aimlessly to a hopeless abyss. Or hit the peddle to find it unresponsive, turn around and not see it. Finding an original seems daunting.
"Alone at sea" reference's losing a rudder,and the hardships he endured because of it. I will never do anything remotely as remarkable as that journey, but still. I do not want to lose my rudder!
Image

A loop of stainless steel window regulator cable and an old pocket watch chain clasp. I just clip it to the rigging pulley before i install it. A little insurance.


Last edited by vdubvance on Sun Aug 15, 2010 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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