Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:10 pm 
Another thing to clarify about "light" Feathercraft and "heavy" Wayland. I've missed the fact that Dgma was using a double for his solo trip. A single Wayland (or Klepper) is already too heavy for carrying it on shoulder - this boat needs a cart. And for flying, especially in modern times of tight restrictions on luggage (which seem to be higher in Europe than in North America), any wooden frame is not a good choice because of bulk and weight, and a double frame would be a bad choice for sure. People fly with them usually for 3 reasons:
1) They already have these boats and don't want to spend money on something lighter;
2) They don't like narrow FC because need more stability;
3) They travel too far from civilization with a lot of cargo (like Arctic journeys in double Klepper).

FC doesn't have anything remotely close to double Wayland or Klepper. K2 is uncomfortable to paddle solo because you can't move the seat to central position, and Klondike is a relatively small double, much smaller volume than Wayland double. I mentioned earlier that K1 is already a little heavy to carry on the shoulder, and Klondike is heavier yet. Klondike needs a good cart. The old man that you saw carrying Feathercraft, was probably carrying Wisper or Kahuna or K-light. If he was carrying a K1 - he was suffering, I'm sure.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:59 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 447
Hi Alex,
I think Dgma said he was using a Harpoon, their single folder. But he says the only other Wayland owner he knows has a double, which also caused them problems.

Dgma, thanks for your info. Have you tried contacting Wayland to see if they can sort out some of your problems? They may be able to use your info to improve their design if there is a problem with their seat fixings for example.

All the best,
Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:47 pm 
idc wrote:
...Dgma said he was using a Harpoon, their single folder. But he says the only other Wayland owner he knows has a double, which also caused them problems.

...They may be able to use your info to improve their design if there is a problem with their seat fixings for example

Right, it was this reference to Wayland double that confused me. Single Wayland is still a pain to fly with, and/or take long-distance buses, trains etc, because of both weight and bulky 2 - 2.5 bags package, when you also have other items for a long trip, possibly - 4 heavy bags in total.

Not to belittle Harpoon here - Klepper AE1 is same heavy and bulky. There is no folding kayak that can be comfortably carried on the shoulders a mile or two in one bag together with, say, 2 days food and gear. If you guys are looking for such a wonder-boat - forget about it. When I used FC Kahuna on weekend trips (2 nights) without my car, I needed a luggage cart to move few hundred meters - there were 2 bags, theoretically I could fit everything in one large bag (like the bag from FC K1), but then it would be impossible to lift it from the ground when navigating stairs and other obstacles.

Resolving the problem with seat attachment and also rudder (which is quite important) is a lot of work. It means replacing metal fittings and parts of the seat, possibly redesigning the whole seat. Improving rudder is even more pain, some rudders are easier to replace than to improve (in this case it could be Klepper rudder, but then the question is - why not getting the entire Klepper AE1). 5-year warranty still applies, so I would rather repair it under warranty and sell ;-) ...


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:52 am 
liviu wrote:
be careful when you buy from them.
at least in my case, they asked me 350 dollars door to door delivery (poland - canada) which ended being only door to airport and around 270 dollars extra in extra charges (terminal handling fee, duties etc) which were supposed to be included in original shipping charges. and what is worse, because of their incompetence, I paid duties for shipping charges (it is a long story with two different invoices for same product)
and it looks like they are not willing to give me a credit for that (i asked them to credit me with 180 of 270, which is more than decent, taking on my own some fees)
so, if you buy from them, add around 300 dollars an top of what they said is shipping charges "all charges included"

Quote:
Hi liviu, I am new to this site,and it is interesting reading,your remarks on the price of delivery from Poland to the US for a Layland folder being $350 was compared to a quote of $450 from the US to the here in the UK I had from Long Haul for double folder,was to my mind quite reasonable. One of the reasons I went back to trolling the net and found, thank the Lord, the Wayland web-site where I did purchase a double folder, with a full sail kit and a spray deck all for quite a lot less than a Long Haul, and with the delivery only costing me around £50, with a waiting time of about three weeks, due to their full order books. My son has an old (52 years) Klepper and is all I have to compere the Wayland with, but for my money they are a bargain. be safe.bigH.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:57 pm 
bigH wrote:
Hi liviu, I am new to this site,and it is interesting reading,your remarks on the price of delivery from Poland to the US for a Layland folder being $350 was compared to a quote of $450 from the US to the here in the UK I had from Long Haul for double folder,was to my mind quite reasonable. One of the reasons I went back to trolling the net and found, thank the Lord, the Wayland web-site where I did purchase a double folder, with a full sail kit and a spray deck all for quite a lot less than a Long Haul, and with the delivery only costing me around £50, with a waiting time of about three weeks, due to their full order books. My son has an old (52 years) Klepper and is all I have to compere the Wayland with, but for my money they are a bargain. be safe.bigH.


BigH,

In my case the shipping was from Poland to Canada, not to US (if this makes a difference) and the final shipping cost was $620.00 (instead of quoted $350). I forget the delivery time, it was over two months, maybe three.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:49 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1089
Location: isles of scilly UK
You know people seem to forget that importing, particularly into Canada does cost import duties and possibly other fees and we should all try to find out the proper cost before embarking on puchases from overseas, never trust the sellers, half the time they don,t really know. I have only just seen Dgma,s experiences. He says he never kayaked before, so never had a (so called )fold up kayak, never put one together or taken one apart and the single seaters must be harder than a two seater, he had no expirence at paddling, he had no repair kit or tools he might need,booked tickets and paid for them, and set out on what seems to have reached a panic mode on a muti-day trip. This trip should have been done quite some time after he recieved the boat so that experience could have been gained and any problems sorted out, there is a warrenty, it almost reads that Dgma had set up an accident that was waiting to happen. There have been some good reports on Wayland boats. When i wanted a new skin for my Klepper i looked at Wayland who told me to contact their Canadian dealer who set the prices for Canada, he told me he no longer sold Wayland and wasnt sure if their skin would fit a Klepper,I bought a Klepper skin at a good price from the Canadian Klepper dealer.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 8:54 pm 
I told my story once on this forum and I will repeat: being aware about that some extra charge can occur, I contacted Wayland (Iwona Novak) in this matter and they said: $350.00, door to door, all charges included, nothing extra to be paid. I got this promise in writing (email). If I am going to buy something from them, I have to rely on this info, otherwise, everything can be questionable, maybe they are selling potatoes and not kayaks.
In the end, I had to pay extra to get the kayak out from customs. I told Wayland that I agree to pay the broker + gst for my kayak, but I want credit for terminal charges, handling etc. I got nothing. Customer service? customer satisfaction? lool. over $600.00 instead of 350 shipping is quite an amount. Also, because of their incompetence, I had to pay duty, gst for shipping charges which is truly idiot moment (duty for shipping??? yes, because they added the value of the shipping to the kayak without any break down on the custom invoice, although initially they sent me a correct invoice when I placed the order).


I tried to do my homework...


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:17 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 447
Speaking of Wayland, can others get their website to work? They appear to have changed it, and it now shows a host of interesting-looking menus, including one mentioning their new folding canoe. But unfortunately clicking on the menus does precisely nothing for my browser (Firefox on Mint Linux). This might be because they are midway through the upgrade and haven't yet finished, or it may be because I'm not using MS Windows, or am suffering some sort of problem with whatever scripts they use. Usually I can work around these problems, but haven't managed yet. Would be interesting to know if others are able to make it work.

[Edit] Actually, a little more exploring and I see it is just some of the options that aren't working. I infer that they simply haven't populated some of the menu items, such as the canoe. Others, i.e. their old models, seem to work fine. Guess I'll just have to wait a few more days yet.[/edit]

Thanks and Happy Christmas.
Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 4:49 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Budapest, HUNGARY
A new boat? Seems attractive. How good is it?

http://www.sklep.wayland.com.pl/index.p ... -alu-basic


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:50 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:55 am
Posts: 575
Location: Dumfries, SW Scotland
I don't read Polish, but from the picture and the specs, it looks like they're aiming for the same market as the Feathercraft Wisper.

_________________
Not in Oxford any more...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2011 2:46 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:22 pm
Posts: 35
Location: Budapest, HUNGARY
maryinoxford wrote:
I don't read Polish, but from the picture and the specs, it looks like they're aiming for the same market as the Feathercraft Wisper.


It was also my impression in terms of size and shape.
Btw you can choose English language version of the site.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:12 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Posts: 4
I thought it is worth sharing in this forum a few remarks about our Wayland Amazon II Expedition kayak, culminating after a 3-week expedition in southern Greenland (the trip itself was wonderful and the boat handled the task successfully, some pictures can be seen here http://www.cirget.uqam.ca/~apostolo/pic ... enland.mov ). I have read the discussions in this forum before the trip, and my partner and I have had one year or so for improvements and extended tests of the kayak prior to our Greenland expedition. We can affirm all the shortcomings previously reported in the forum, and add a few more to the list, but I would rather try to highlight in this post some of the modification that, we believe, have improved the boat to an acceptable expedition level:

1. The low quality of aluminium fittings: The aluminium used by Wayland is too soft and will eventually break. This is something that you cannot do much about it (except ordering spares; however, performing a field replacement of a fitting might be a challenging task even for a carpenter). Also, in contact with salt water the material corrodes very quickly. Varnishing the fittings with urethane polish will probably slow down the corrosion process, but we think that a spray-deck allowing the use of sea-socks and traditional spray-skirts (see # 5 below) will be the most efficient way to reduce contact with salt water.

2. The rudder system: I strongly suggest the original rudder to be replaced with a Klepper rudder before using the boat at sea, as the original system is dangerous. Already during the first test of the boat, the blade of the rudder bent during a turn and acted as an anchor, forcing a wet exit (fortunately in Greece, not in Greenland) in order to avoid crashing against the rocks... Just changing the rudder blade with one made from a better material and the obvious replacement of pedal cords with stainless steel cables is not going to solve all the problems. The next thing you will discover is that the brackets fixing the pedal to the keel will bend (see the remarks in #1), so we ordered similar fittings from Klepper. The latter are not readily compatible, but we were able to fix this. Another problem turned out to be the spacers in the centre of the rudder head, used for raising & lowering the fin: these are made from wood covered with plastic rings. The wooden parts broke shortly after our first tests. We replaced these spacers with plastic ones and thought the rudder was in a good shape for our Greenland expedition...but we were wrong. The mounting bracket for the rudder eventually broke at its lower end, thus leaving the whole rudder system to dangerously hang on one single bolt through the skin (by the way, the washer used to attach the bracket to the skin was most probably not made from stainless steel as we found it totally corroded). We had to make an emergency field-repair using a cutlery to elaborate a P shaped bracket! In fact, we realized that the problem was likely caused by the softness of the porous material used for the bracket and the rudder head: all the holes have expanded and created loose connections of the mechanism, thus increasing considerably the effort for lifting and lowering the fin. Although the boat is technically still under warranty (however, see # 6) we decided to change the whole rudder system (including the mounting bracket) with the new long-blade Klepper rudder assembly.

TBC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:16 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:25 pm
Posts: 4
3. The frame: Some reviewers pointed out that the wooden frame construction of Wayland is solid, but during our tests the two F-bars (the plywood bars that form the front of the cockpit) developed cracks: two of the 4 plies of the plywood broke in the area where the bars are forced to bend in order to form the shape of the cockpit. We were extremely lucky and are very grateful to Simon, the UK distributor for Wayaland, who managed to send us a pair of new F-bars (we didn't have the same problem with the new bars so far) and thus saved our expedition just a week before departure! Up to this day, the manufacturer representative (aka Iwonka) has never responded to our multiple e-mails (three in English one in Polish) bagging for replacement of these broken parts, even though we ordered the boat directly from them and the frame is under their 5-year warranty. As mentioned in one of the posts here, another common problem with the frame is that you must rigourously tie all the longerons to the frame/ribs, otherwise they will disassemble and the frame will end up being held only by the skin - another serious security issue to be aware of. The frame decomposition process will also damage the air-sponsors, as reported in another post. This is a simple fix, but extends considerably the assembly time.

4. Seats and backrests: One should seriously consider to refurbish them. Not only they are ridiculously uncomfortable for extended trips, but the plywood base inside turned out not to be water-proved/varnished, and developed mildew shortly after the first time the seat got wet. We are very grateful to Koko Landjoff and his team (http://landjoff.com/) for making a fairly successful modification http://www.cirget.uqam.ca/~apostolo/pictures/seat.jpg


5. Spray deck: the kayak came with a standard velcro type spray-deck with integrated spray-skirts. We found this to be inadequate for the purpose of our expedition and decided to upgrade it for a tuck-under deck-spray cover made from a more durable material with two rigid openings + traditional spray-skirts and sea-socks (similar to the well-known expedition spry-cover system of Long Haul). After failing to get any response from the factory for this modifications, we got the job done very professionally by Koko Landjoff (http://landjoff.com/), the result can be seen here http://www.cirget.uqam.ca/~apostolo/pictures/deck.jpg . Thank you Koko for your support!

6. Customer service: it is simply revolting. They didn't give any follow-up to our multiple requests for changing broken parts of the frame under warranty, nor did they reply to our e-mails asking for specific upgrades. The company does not stand by their products and pays no respect to their clients: what else can I add? As I mentioned above, we are very grateful to Simon Bolze from http://www.waylandkayaks.co.uk to resolve the warranty issue for us. I would advise any potential buyer to avoid dealing directly with the factory, but contact instead a reliable dealer (so to have at least the dealer support). Our impression from Simon is great: thank you Simon!

7. Positives? We can testify that after making all the necessary modifications, which coasted us about 600 EUR, the boat handled well a three-week expedition in a quite demanding arctic environment. Among the pros, the load capacity of the boat is remarkable (handled with ease more than 500 pounds load), stability is excellent and tracking is very good. Our normal cruising speed with fully loaded boat was about 5- 5.5 km/h, but we were able to move at 7 km/h when necessary. We didn't have any serious problems with the skin so far.

I will be happy to answer any further question you might have.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:53 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1089
Location: isles of scilly UK
Thank you for your report on your successfull expedition and the problems you have encountered with Wayland, it goes to show that while they have similar designs to other makes, the higher prices of these other makes maybe justified in superior quality. Also the fact that their UK dealer is doing far more than Wayland for it,s customers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: WAYLAND
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:04 am 
forum fanatic
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:47 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Reading, South of England
I will endeavour to comment on the various points raised by Vesti and others in this thread over a couple of separate 'replies' over the next few days. There are some points of which I need more info from the technical / manufacturing side at the factory.

It must be remembered that there is a 5 & 10 year guarantee on the kayaks, so any broken parts should always reported to be replaced (do not attempt to send anything back). The factory relies on feedback and do try act on them, to improve on the products themselves etc. I know because I've seen it.

Communication has been a big issue in the past, but they are improving. However if you have attempted to contact the factory directly without any success about an existing issue, bring it up with us and we'll see what we can do for you. Where ever you are in the world, if you do not have an active Wayland dealer in your country, you are more than welcome to contact and deal with us directly.

There are big changes happening at the Wayland factory now, not only has the factory floor size been expanded earlier this year, more importantly is that production equipment is being relocated to this factory from another very well known folding kayak brand's own factory in Germany. (Wayland will be producing kayaks etc for this existing German brand from Nov 2012 onwards). This means that possibly all the alu pieces as used on Waylands may now change for the better quality version.

Regarding the 'broken' links and some outdated information on the existing Polish website. The factory had an employee who was responsible for marketing and unfortunately this person left the company some 2 years ago, leaving the website incomplete. I am sure that sooner or later this will be resolved - they have someone who can do some basic changes in the meantime.

_________________
Regards

Simon Bolze
Wayland Folding Kayaks UK

Exclusive Distributor - UK (England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland)
Worldwide dealer (IE - no active Wayland distributor in that country)
http://www.waylandkayaks.co.uk info@waylandkayaks.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group