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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 8:45 am 
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
Attachment:
pioneer1.jpg

I must say that it looks great. Thanks to this forum I was able to find out a little about them.
It is missing a rudder head and of course the skin is long gone with the rudder/cap castings.
More to follow if I find a hull worth using to get it back on the water!


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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


Last edited by GrnMtns on Wed May 18, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: isles of scilly UK
If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 12:03 pm 
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Location: Germany
1. The name of the company is Pionier, not Pioneer!
2. You need "cap castings" like this:
http://www.patcool.de/pionier-520/pioni ... -2346.html
3. Also you need "Tothölzer" sitting in the hull and are screwed to the fittings:
http://www.patcool.de/pionier-520/pioni ... -2350.html
4. You can get the best replacement hulls here:
http://www.heise-faltboote.de
5. More informations are availible here:
http://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=1006
http://www.faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-pioni ... boote.html

R.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:19 pm 
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
Wow. I did not expect so much info. I have a Godson in Hamburg and we hope visit this summer.Maybe I should pack an extra suit case for a new hull.
These are well built frames and the sail rig looks complete and quite usable as is. Thank you RanierM for the references!
Best,
Jon

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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
"like" button for Rainer :-)

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
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Location: Germany
Same more informations about Pionier:
nice movies on youtube:

6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSMpApOMCrc
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMU5rNceiMA

Only in German, use "google translate":

8. http://www.merkur.de/lokales/bad-toelz/ ... 78295.html
9. http://www.merkur.de/lokales/bad-toelz/ ... 74796.html
10. a few impressions of the exhibition "90 years Pionier" in 2015:

R.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 6:33 pm 
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Location: Germany
13. rudder head
12. "RainerM" on the river Isar in Bavaria in a Pionier 450W (W = Whitewater). On the river Isar, Alfred Heurich - the inventor of folding kayaks- undertook his first trip in May 1905).
11. Klepper SL53 (with skin, only frame)

The same modell (Pionier 450W) was used by Theo Bock an the Arkansas River Race in 1953 -> 2nd Winner.
Race winner was Erich Seidel in Klepper Slalom 53...

R.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:09 pm 
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
Hi R,
I enjoyed the videos and the new pics. Looking at the frames here & the two hefty paddlers in the video I would assume the 520 Z is rather low volume (compared to a Klepper A2), abit tender and a fast boat to paddle. Would you care to comment on how it handles?
Attachment:
PionierSwordplant.jpg


I appear to be missing only the rudder bar for steering and the lee board "swordplant" Good translation by google :~)?
Attachment:
pionier4.jpg


Thanks You!
Best,
Jon


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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
john allsop wrote:
If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.

Hi John,
I hope to assemble the frame next week after I make a couple repairs and will post the results!
Best,
Jon

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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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PostPosted: Fri May 20, 2016 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
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Location: Germany
Hi Jon,

the Aerius double is heavy and lame. In my opinion, a failed construction, only good for sailing. There are very many better two-seater folding boats than an Aerius.
The Pionier 520Z is light in weight, the seating position is much better and the boat is fast to paddle.
The ease of assembly of Aerius is unsurpassed.

The yellow/blue Pionier folder in the video is a prewar "Z35" from ~ 1935.

520Z: 5,20m x 0,80m (in inches ??)
Z35: 5,20m x 0,75m !!

Rainer

"... leeboards crossbar ..." ?? !!


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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 7:25 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
RainerM wrote:
Hi Jon,

the Aerius double is heavy and lame. In my opinion, a failed construction, only good for sailing. There are very many better two-seater folding boats than an Aerius.
The Pionier 520Z is light in weight, the seating position is much better and the boat is fast to paddle.
The ease of assembly of Aerius is unsurpassed.

The yellow/blue Pionier folder in the video is a prewar "Z35" from ~ 1935.

520Z: 5,20m x 0,80m (in inches ??)
Z35: 5,20m x 0,75m !!

Rainer

"... leeboards crossbar ..." ?? !!



Hi Rainer,
Excellent looks like the extra width should make the difference. I have yet to attempt a 530Z assembly and am prepared to find it challenging!
We have a Folbot Greenland 2 so we are used to long slow paddles but great sailing.(although @ 62# it works OK)

I have Balogh Sail components and may modify a cross tube so I can use their 120 cm lee board if I get a hull for the 520Z

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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
john allsop wrote:
If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.

I just got a chance to figure out where everything goes.
Attachment:
DSCN4845.JPG


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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:08 pm 
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
A Gunther-yawl? That is a very cool rig.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1396
Location: South Salem, NY
Wow, that's awesome. I love that mizzen!

The Balogh rigs are fantastic, but you cannot beat the classic lines of the old sail rigs. That's gorgeous.

It has a beautiful lee board assembly as well, very nice design.

d

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Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:43 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
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Location: Northern Vermont,USA
We went ahead and ordered a blue hull from Markus Heise and will be picking it up in July.
Attachment:
PionierSwordplant.jpg





With any luck we will be sailing in August. I have a small group of kayak sailors getting together for the third year in the Rangley Lakes region Aug 1-10 at the Cupsuptic Campground. All are welcome. The lakes offer some of the best sailing anywhere in New England. PM me for more details.
Attachment:
cupsuptic1.jpg


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Jon

Folbot Greenland II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1


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