Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:31 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Interesting Article
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:51 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Here's a link to an interesting article on the Australian military's project to build a better folding kayak than the AEII.

http://www.nswseakayaker.asn.au/magazin ... hibian.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:45 pm 
Very interesting. I'd love to see some pictures of the boat. I suppose that must be confidential?

Nohoval


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:03 pm 
nohoval_turrets wrote:
Very interesting. I'd love to see some pictures of the boat. I suppose that must be confidential?

Nohoval


So would I. Nothing on Google. I wonder if they are available to the public?.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:25 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
The article makes it sound like the production-run of 120 units ended 20 years ago. They say 20 are still in service-- perhaps a few letters to the Aussie military would reveal the location of the other 100.

Peter Ratzinger, the author and a lawyer from NSW, used to post often on Bagboater (or was it one of the other paddling listserves?).

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:15 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
I could not find a photo either. One of the Aussie military sites that I found talked about commandos practicing some techniques in an MK3 kayak. It seemed to be a recent article.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:44 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Quote:
The article makes it sound like the production-run of 120 units ended 20 years ago. They say 20 are still in service-- perhaps a few letters to the Aussie military would reveal the location of the other 100.


I wonder if they just weren't as practical as buying Kleppers and thus are being phased out. Perhaps they were superior vessels but the ability to source the materials and build them proved too problematic. Why would there only be 20 MK3's in the current fleet, with those kayaks being twenty years old, when there used to be 120? Something doesn't seem to fit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:16 pm 
I suppose 20 years could be quite a lifetime under extreme use. According to Mark at LH, these boats have to withstand fully loaded drops form helicopters from 3 to 4 m.
I notice Klepper suggests a 15-20 year lifespan for heavily used expedion/military kayaks.

It seems to make sense that outfitting from Klepper or LH would be more cost effective than contracting to a non-folder specific supplier to manufacture limited quantities. Every time they needed replacements, the supplier would need to retool. Parts and service could be slow or unavailable. It seems to me it would be a QM's nightmare to have to keep track of the wear 'n tear on a fleet of kayaks so as to determine when to put in requesition forms so that the powers that be could advise the supplier to start production again in time to be sure the commandos have kayaks when they need them, etc.
It's probably the civilian use that keeps production levels up at Klepper and LH to make it cost effective for military application. -I realize there are flaws in this logic; the US military doesn't seem to mind spending US$40 on an ordinary hammer :? , some military items have no civilian use, but are produced (at extreme cost) anyhow, etc.


-Andreas


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:19 am 
It's possible that of the 120 boats ordered some were held as reserves. This is just an educated guess based on my own experience with military contracts/orders.

We fulfilled our last contract about 10 months ago now and have yet to receive an order for spares. We have only had one gunwhale come back under warranty because the stringer cracked under initial assembly. (If it's going to break under normal use that will be the time.) I was honestly expecting at least an order for a few "parts frames" but it never came. With all this in mind I can only surmise two scenarios. They either held some boats in reserve as replacements, or they haven't been able to break them yet. I'd say the former is true although I would like to think the latter is also. :D

Anyway just my 2 cents with a nickel thrown in for good measure.


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:10 pm 
Hi,

I was sort of surmising the same thing about the Australians. It would make sense that some canabalising would occur. This is the only senario that makes sense why they would go through a non-folding specific supplier.

I noticed from the article the boats were declassified in 2003. Apparently the Australian Commandos aren't camera shy,

[url=http://www.defence.gov.au/fotoweb/]Link:
Image[/url]

I have to suppose with so few boats, the boats don't get photographed very much. There are hundreds of misc. military photos in the Australian Defence Departments Galleries. :?

Mark was telling me a little about his boats not needing many replacement parts. I can see how the full length lamination of the plywood to longerons helps the overall integrity of the parts. SS also lasts a tad longer than aluminium in salt water.

-Andreas


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:01 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 12:21 am
Posts: 34
Location: Tokyo
here is a pic: http://www.anmm.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=104&c=202


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:17 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Southeast Michigan
Ralph Diaz had the whole story from the designer/builder some years ago. Short version: He made what he thought was an improved, locally-built boat that improved on the Klepper for Military use. The government bought one run of the boats, but subbed the paddles out to some third party who delivered a piece of garbage. The designer was not happy with how it went.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 1:09 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
I spoke with someone who considered selling them here in the US about 10 years ago. They were going to have to buy 100 up front which made the capital investment high. Plus, I think they found getting information from the selling parties not as fluid as they would have liked.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group