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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:08 pm 
I'm in the fortunate position of having absolutely no bad habits when it comes to boat handling and paddling skills -- and no good habits, either. Reading about Greenland paddles, I've been very intrigued, and like the idea of the traditional form and its possible advantages. (I do realize that only time will tell if it's the style for me.)

I want to start off right, and will be taking classes in a few months, but am worried about the effects of learning with a greenland paddle and having no euro paddle experience. While the instructors may be fully versed and well-meaning, there doesn't seem to be much support for novices in terms of learning and perfecting the different techniques. MEC doesn't sell any, books don't discuss them, and I'm worried that classes will teach techniques that will leave me at a disadvantage.

So, what do I do? Is it easy to adapt, should I tough it out, or go Euro until I know enough to change?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:29 am 
I think you should be able to do this. You'll have to adapt what you're taught, but broadly speaking the basics are the same between euro and gp - it's just the implementation is a little different. There's good advice on the web about paddling with a GP (try QajaqUSA), so with a little advance studying you should have a good idea what modifications to make.

Nohoval


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:12 pm 
Thanks very much. I'm hesitant because it will take me a long time to learn that I don't know something, but I really like the idea of not having to adapt mid-stream.

For a very simple practical consideration -- I can't fly with a seven-foot paddle -- I'm facing the prospect of having to buy one of feathercraft's four-peice folders, which means I'm stuck with the spoon paddles. I'll ask if their GP can fit in the same backpack as the Wisper. If not, then I might choose the narrower-bladed paddle and experiment with it feathered and unfeathered. I can always buy a one-peice GP for use when air travel isn't required...


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 Post subject: Lendal paddles
PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:02 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
Excellent 4 piece paddles that are not at all loose like Feathercrafts or Aquabounds and can be ordered with an adjustable feather

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:39 am 
The Klatwa won't fit in the Wisper backpack, I'm afraid. Tom Yost has details on making a travel case for a GP.

Nohoval


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:33 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:22 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I think http://www.bealepaddles.com/ makes 2 piece GP, and http://yostwerks.com/ shows how make one yourself.

I have enjoyed immensely having one of each paddle type from the beginning.

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Rasmus Møller

Triton Ladoga II Adv+3.5m2 sail+outriggers
"Nova" SOF from 1928
Euro + GP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:36 pm 
Thanks for all of the info, everyone. While I'm still eager to learn with a GP, it sounds like it won't be realistic to travel with in the spring, which means I'll be taking classes with a spoon paddle. With the sole exception of the air travel, though, a one-piece greenland paddle won't be an issue to travel with. Most of my paddling will be on a small local lake, anyway.

So, any recommendations for a spoon paddle that will fit a backpack for air travel, and will be easy to transition to/from a GP?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2006 10:59 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1230
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Euro paddles and Greenland paddles use different strokes. I use both. I use a Windswift by Eddyline as my main paddle. It has a small blade. You could get a Toksook and order it unfeathered. That is based on Aleutian paddles.

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:19 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Would that be this one?

http://www.useakayak.org/toksook.html

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:37 am 
Quote:
So, what do I do? Is it easy to adapt, should I tough it out, or go Euro until I know enough to change?]


I've noticed that new paddlers take to the GP quite easily and naturally if they have little or no Euro experience.

I paddled with a Euro for 20 years before learning to us a GP in 1990. I found the transition to be a difficult one and it took me an entire paddling season to get comfortable with the GP. I almost gave up on the GP during that time. I finally mastered the paddle and I haven't used a Euro since that time, and can see no reason for ever using one again. In fact, over the years, I've cut up the fibergalass looms from most of my homebuilt Euro's ( Lendal knock-off's) to use as take-apart ferrules for my GP's. :D

GP's are efficient for long distance paddling, much easier on the shoulders due to their flex, and the best bet for rolling. I prefer longer than normal GP's and AP's( Aleut Paddles) for a slower turnover and also better stability. ( 92 to 94 inches...I'm 5'9")

One of the side benefits of the GP is the low cost and quick build time of making your own. With some practice, you can make a GP in just a few hours using mostly power tools. In addition, yours will be as good as anything commercially produced due to the simplicity of the design.

A take-apart GP takes only an additional hour or so, and no expensive ferrules are required, just some 8" fiberglass paddle shaft or some aluminum tubing. A cedar 2 X 4 , a band saw, a palm sander , and a small block plane are all the tools required . You can skip the band saw, but it will take longer.

The Euro is less than 150 years old, while the GP or it's older cousin the AP have been around for thousands of years. It stands to reason that the Aleut and Inuit , whose lives depended on their gear, knew what was best !

http://yostwerks.com/APIntro.html - Take-Apart paddles

Regards,

Tom


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 Post subject: The Toksook
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:15 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1230
Location: Anchorage Alaska
chrstjrn wrote:

Yes, I made the mistake of letting Derek Hutchinson talk me into one that was too long (230cm) and feathered at 90 deg. Liked the paddle but the shaft was just way too long and the angle way too high.If I were to buy one now, I would size it like a GP so about 218cm for me and get it with an adjustable offset or set to 45 RH and 0 degrees. Lendal makes the paddles but they reverse the male and female ends.

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 3:57 pm 
I used a Euro paddle for as long as I've paddled (15+ yrs) then I started reading about GPs last summer and decided to try one. I made it from a nice, straight grained cedar 2x4 and it turned out great. I had no difficulty at all adjusting to it and quite like the way it feels. I could paddle longer with less fatigue.
But here's the downside: a) since it is a one piece, it is awkward to transport; b) and this the biggie for me, it is VERY wet since there are no drip rings. If you paddle with a sprayskirt, this issue goes away, but I generally prefer to paddle with the cockpit open, particularly in warm weather, so a "wet" paddle definitely becomes annoying.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2006 5:08 pm 
I've certainly been intrigued by the directions for how to home-build a greenland paddle, and it's apparent simplicity. I'm sure I could build a couple of them for less than the price of having one shipped, and even buy a few tools for the cost of purchasing one. I'm not sure when it would all fit in my 300 square foot apartment, though -- where would I keep all the shavings? :shock:

I'm thinking about picking out some nice cedar and finding an established woodworker to make it for me. I know nothing about how to paddle, and nothing about crafting and finishing wood, so a furniture maker is already one up on me. When I have some experience, and know more about my likes and dislikes, I can try making my own. (Or pay someone again -- I'll be living in a bigger place by then, but not that much bigger.)

My immediate plan is to follow tsunamichuck's earlier suggestion, and try to find a four-piece Lendal Archipelago in polypropylene. (Their Canadian distributor is lacking some basic information on its website.) I can use it as a primary paddle for air travel, and keep it as a nice compact spare.

This might be my first kayak-related decision that comes in underbudget. There's still plenty of time to spend more money...


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