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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:50 am 
recent arrival

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Hello all,

I'm totally new here (see my introductory post) and almost totally new to Kayaking. I am looking for an inflatable/folding Kayak with the folllowing features;

    Is ocean-going: i.e. suitable for coasting, exploring protected bays, etc.
    Has plenty of space: most importantly I need space! Space for multi-day trips into wilderness.
    Performs well: obviously a fast, buoyant and stable Kayak is desirable.
    And: one which doesn't cost the world.

My budget is sterling is £400 to £1000. In the UK, relative to cost, that's about the same range as dollars would buy you in the USA. What's important to me most is buying the right Kayak now and not having to upgrade later, as this always works out more in the long-run.

So that's it - I want something which is going to take me to remote places and be able to carry all my gear that can be packed down light enough to carry on pubic transport or for portage. So far I've narrowed it down to;

    ADVANCED ELEMENTS Expedition Elite: this looks good, gets good reviews and is sold as an 'expedition' craft, but some say storage space is 'limited'.

    ADVANCED ELEMENTS Advanced Frame Convertible Kayak: also by AE, someone suggested this Kayak which is actually sold as a double/single - presumably because it offers more storage space?

    GUMOTEX FRAMURA: Lastly, this is slightly more expensive but is sold as being able to carry 'a lot' of baggage, at 16kg / 35lb it is lighter than both the above and slightly more expensive, however there is less info about it on the web - http://www.gumotexboats.com/framura-inflatable-kayaks

So that's my research so far, I am of course totally open to comments and other suggestions or recommendations from the infinitely wiser and more experienced community :)

Many thanks,
Ross


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:38 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 537
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
If you want cargo space and stability within your budget, you ought to look at Pakboats. Their removable deck and low volume inflatable sponson design means huge space inside the hull with easy access. Most of their models are lighter than any of the three that you have listed and better performing, especially in coastal conditions, in fact more similar to hardshell kayaks than the AE of Gumotex designs which tend to be closer to inflatable rafts. Pakboats are produced in Scandinavia so I think there are UK dealers. Models like their Quest 150 or Puffin (either the Saco solo or Saranac tandem, which is convertible to solo) can be used with the deck as a sit inside or without the deck as an open boat.

Take a look at the specs. I've owned 4 of their models, including a Puffin solo that I brought to the UK with me from the US last year:

http://pakboats.com/folding-kayaks/

_________________
Current:
Feathercraft Wisper
Pakboat Quest 135
Pakboat Puffin 12
Pakboat Swift 14
Greenland SOF
P & H Easky 15LV
Previous:
Feathercraft Kahuna
Feathercraft K-1 Expedition
Pakboat XT-15


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:59 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Hi Kerry, and thank you for taking the time to respond. I have looked at Pakrafts but they do not have much of a distribution here in the UK and the Qwest was at 1600 euro - which is quite expensive for me. At a third of the price I have noticed the Innova Safari which gets glowing reviews; most people seem to praise it for its versatility. I would love to hear any more thoughts about this because for under 400 euro it is a pretty affordable option right now. I notice however, while it is sold as a Kayak, it seems to be an 'open' design? It is self-bailing. I'm not sure how that would impact me. Again I don't intend (yet) on doing anything knarly, being something of a novice.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:35 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 537
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
Am surprised that you found such high prices. Current price for a Pakboat Quest 150 in the US is around $1350 which translates to about 1000 quid. Shipping would only be around $300 (my brother, who reconditions vintage drum sets, just shipped a large drum from upstate NY to Manchester UK for that much and the package was about the size and weight of a bagged Pakboat.) If you found a used folder in the US that somebody was willing to box to ship I think you could get a better price than what you found. From what I understand "canoeing" (which in the UK includes kayaks) are exempt as sporting goods from the VAT.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/sport-suppl ... tice-70145

I would caution you on considering boats like the Innova Safari for your intended usage. Coastal paddling in Britain is in serious waters where you need to consider tides, rip currents, offshore winds and quite cold water year round. Open boats, especially inflatables, have drawbacks for such conditions. They are susceptible to being blown around by wind due to the bulk of the tube walls, this also can make them very difficult to control and to propel forward in rough water. The chances of being swept off shore beyond where you can easily regain land under your own power are a concern. Also, open boats are a wet ride and you would be exposed to the water at all times -- paddling such boats in the seas around the UK would require temperature protective clothing like wetsuits and/or drysuits.

If you want to limit your paddling to inland rivers and lakes, the inflatables you are looking at will be OK (though still with the proviso of possible problems on large windy lakes.)

A better option would be to seek a used boat, so that you can get something more suitable within your budget.

You might consider contacting Pakboats (not Pakrafts -- that is a different animal). They are a small company and they are very good about personally responding to inquiries. They sometimes have used boats and demos for sale and in some cases have had information about some of their boats available overseas from dealers or outfitters.

You might also be able to find used Folbots, Kleppers, Pioniers, Nautiraid, Wayland, Longhaul or the other European made folding kayaks for sale. Folders have long been more widely used and distributed in Europe than in the US.

There is a UK dealer that often has used boats available for sale:

https://www.foldingkayaks.co.uk/folding ... ntage.html

PS: found this Wayland for sale on Ebay in Salisbury, starting at 800 quid or "best offer". Try offering 600 and see if they bite. Listing is only for another couple of days:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kayak-Waylan ... rk:19:pf:0

PPS: Just learned (from a forum post on here) of another folding kayak brand that is available in the UK: Neris. They are located in Reading. Here is the model and price list. Their Valkure 1 is 1060 quid (extra for spray deck, which you would want.):

https://www.neris.co.uk/prices.html

_________________
Current:
Feathercraft Wisper
Pakboat Quest 135
Pakboat Puffin 12
Pakboat Swift 14
Greenland SOF
P & H Easky 15LV
Previous:
Feathercraft Kahuna
Feathercraft K-1 Expedition
Pakboat XT-15


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:01 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:12 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks again Kerry - perhaps something I ought to consider is an inflatable for now and with a definite upgrade once I'm confident to start thinking about sea kayaking. I think for the first season I would only consider lakes, rivers or canals anyway, on account of being inexperienced on open water. However, your suggestions about open vs closed presumably relate to all options. Buying a Kayak sure is a daunting prospect!! At the moment, the choice is rather baffling though limited somewhat by budget.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:06 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1232
Location: Anchorage Alaska
The Safari would be fun for surfing and playing on rivers. Not a great long distance open water boat. Love the duckies but not the best option for windy ocean paddling. Look at the Nautiraids from France. Expensive but great open water kayaks

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:59 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1756
Location: Southeast Michigan
My limited experience with Advanced Elements boats suggests that they’re best for sheltered water. In your price range I’d look at the Pakboats suggested and at used Kleppers, Pouchs, Nauturaids, and Long Hauls. All have wooden frames that are field repairable and tough Hypalon or PVC hulls. There are a lot of them out there and plenty of spares.

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Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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