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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 10:08 pm 
candice wrote:
if I'm hauling my gear with me, then how can I get out and flip it over [to get the water out], especially if I'm not in shallow water?

You can't do this in deep water where there is no support to stand on. It will get more water again, when you flip it back to the upright position. But you can raft both kayaks together, bail some water out with combined efforts of both of you, and then you get in, while she is holding your kayak, and bail the remaining water out. If some water got in the kayak and you are offshore and upright, you don't have to get out and flip it over - use a bailer or a pump instead. In any event, try self-assisted re-entry - close to the beach, yet where it is still deep enough to prevent you from touching the bottom. At this point it belongs somewhere to "safety and resque" topics - these issues are common to all kayaks.

And make sure all the cargo is secured to the boat - something will sink immediately, and something will drift away (paddles do that too). Securing the cargo is less important in "normal" kayaks with long cargo area covered with permanent deck, but in open boat (or where the deck isn't premanently attached to the boat) this is a must.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:34 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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You really should not be paddling in it.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:23 am 
Not paddling in what? The Puffin Sport?

Candice


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:49 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Chuck likes to start a sentence in the subject line and finish it in the body-- it can be confusing. Try reading his subject line.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:55 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Alm wrote:
candice wrote:
if I'm hauling my gear with me, then how can I get out and flip it over [to get the water out], especially if I'm not in shallow water?

You can't do this in deep water where there is no support to stand on. It will get more water again, when you flip it back to the upright position...


Actually, Alex, you can in a Puffin. Since you've never tried a Puffin, you need to be careful about making pronouncements like this.

Candice: regardless of the boat, Alex is right: you need to tie everything in, or at least tether it. I went to tethering, in the Puffins, because it is not only easier to do, but it also easier to flip the boat over without all that weight in it and throw everything back in (if it's deckless).

Take that P-sport over to a swimming pool and try flipping it. You'll learn a lot really quickly. In the event of a capsize, your concern is the water that a deck keeps IN-- it won't keep any out, once you are out of the boat.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:57 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
The paddle is quite solid and inexpensive ($40?). It is 57" assembled, 31" disassembled. (Also posted under "paddles")

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:11 am 
Chuck is right. If you can't swim in cold water (i.e. not enough clothes put on), you shouldn't be paddling in it. Also, - if you can't fit all the checked-in gear in the backpack, you shouldn't be flying with it. And then there is a task of fitting the backpack into the kayak - when even the most compact internal frame, made of 2 bent aluminum pieces, becomes too bulky.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:19 am 
chrstjrn wrote:
Alm wrote:
You can't do this in deep water where there is no support to stand on. It will get more water again, when you flip it back to the upright position...


Actually, Alex, you can in a Puffin.

Because its sponsons are wide in vertical dimension, almost becoming the floor, and the whole thing sits high in the water? Is it still the same with the boat loaded up to the limit?
PS: And I don't understand why would anybody want to flip his boat over to get rid of water, rather than using a bailer or pump? When you are still upright, you may be half-wet (below the waist); when you flip it over, you're all wet, plus risking to lose some gear.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:39 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
You should not be paddling in water you are unable to swim in in any boat. You can get gear to protect you, but you really should take a swim before every paddle to make sure you can handle an unplanned swim.

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 5:42 pm 
tsunamichuck wrote:
You should not be paddling in water you are unable to swim in in any boat.

There are some exceptions - extreme situations where you have to paddle even though the water is terribly cold. If you read the book "Arctic Crossing" by John Waterman - he used Klepper AEII with a very small Balogh sal, with and without outrigger - so there was a chance to flip over, and once or twice he did. Rolling this boat isn't possible (I recall some rolling stunts in AEII with deflated sponsons, they were exactly stunts). He had a drysuite, but I understand the water was too cold anyway. Realizing that he would only have a few minutes before his legs lock (and not much longer before the heart stops), he chose to paddle very close to shoreline (50 or 100 meters, I don't remember), so he would be able to touch the bottom before his legs lock.

PS: Is there any way to move the last few posts to "General Questions" may be?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:09 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Actually, he was in a single. He capsized early on because he was trying to save time and didn't fit the outriggers, and promised himself that he'd never go out in such cold water without the outriggers again.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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