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 Post subject: LH Mk I or Folbot Yukon
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:11 pm 
I know these are vastly different but would appreciate some advice. I intend to purchase a 2nd hand boat for use by 3 of my family; myself 5'10'' 85kg, wife 5'6'' 60kg and 12yo son (who I hope will continue to enjoy the boat for many years). Use will be on ocean/bay and some rivers. Not planning on rough weather use! and will be used for short camping trips.
Will the LH be too heavy for my son/wife? If so the Yukon seems to be a satisfactory and cheap alternative. Whilst I appreciate that the LH is a much more expensive boat I am keen on the redundancy and longevity in the design which I would like to think will be a hand me down....however the Yukon will be perfectly adequate for my purposes. I would value any comments. Martyn


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:20 pm 
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The LH Mk-I won't sit on its lines with a 60Kg paddler. the Yukon would be fine, but your wife or son could use the smaller Aleut as well. You could, too. My pal Rob, who's 6'2" and about 180lbs spent several weeks in Alaska with an Aleut.

Your wife and son may in fact find the Yukon a bit large for their comfort. A Long Haul boat that would work for your wife and son and perhaps you would be the Ute- check out the review on the main foldingkayaks.org site.

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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:19 pm 
thanks for this. i had thought of the Ute, which looks like a lovely boat, but wanted to keep things simple. I also thought the additional beam of the Yukon in particular might be an advantage. As far as capacity goes we would be travelling in an AE II and another (Ute/LH MkI/Yukon) so capacity should not be aproblem. Th eMk i i s abeautiful boat though.....
am I right in thinkingg that a rudder would still be necessary for the Ute for open sea use?
Martyn


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:00 pm 
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We never put a rudder on the Ute during testing. It tracks very well without one. Of course, we didn't encounter any heavy winds or strong currents.

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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:44 am 
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Location: Seattle
I have been a Folbot Yukon owner since 2007, and while I haven't paddled the Long Haul for comparison, I do recommend the Yukon.

I'm 6'4" 200 pounds (193 cm, 90 kg), and I easily fit into the Yukon with tons of room and weight allowance for gear. I am a "heavy-style" camper and bring lots of gear, heedless of the weight. I also bring my own drinking water most of the time, and the Yukon handles all this stuff with ease.

The stability of the Yukon is also phenominal - last year in the San Juan Islands of Washington State, I was trapped by tides and had to anchor to kelp for six hours. During this period of waiting, it became necessary for me to "do some business" over the side of the boat. Despite my height and weight, I was able to use a paddlefloat as an outrigger and felt no risk of capsizing during this delicate operation.

The Yukon tracks well enough that I have never felt the need for a rudder, even when paddling perpendicular to a current. Weathercocking or windvaning is also not an issue - it's a very controllable boat. Despite its beam and stability, it is surprisingly fast, especially in choppy conditions. Folbot's claims of speed, which sound exagerrated for a 13' x 30" boat (396 cm x 76 cm), are actually true.

The boat will ship some water under the spraydeck if there are waves breaking over the deck. It's nothing dangerous, but it can be unpleasant to have a bucketfull of ice-cold seawater suddenly in your lap. Even in more mild conditions, there is a very slight intrusion of water under the spraydeck, which will create a very slow but steady drip onto your legs. This drip is annoying but actually quite small - at the end of an eight or ten hour day, the tops of your thighs will be slightly damp, nothing more.

The Yukon is light enough to be carried over your shoulder, and is easy for one person to put on a car rack.

I recommend the Yukon for day-trippers, beginning paddlers, and voyages up to two weeks. It is at home on salt water and large lakes, as well as rivers that don't require extremely sharp maneuvers. More experienced paddlers might want a sleeker, more agile boat (the Yukon is essentially un-rollable and un-capsizeable). Very long expeditions might require a boat with more storage capacity. I consider the Yukon to be a "do anything" boat. It's light and convenient for after-work paddling, durable and seaworthy for salt water, roomy enough for expeditions, and stable enough for beginners to feel confident.

Alex


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:41 am 
this is very helpful advice and observations. Thanks. would anyone feel able to comment where the Cooper fits in here? I understand that it is a markedly different boat to the Yukon but I would be interested in hearing from someone who has paddled both. Matryn


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:41 pm 
Cooper vs Yukon would be like a bicycle against a tricycle. Very few similarities. On a short daytrip without wind, waves, fishing, multiday gear, and with a very low mileage there will be no difference. Yukon can do what Cooper can't, and vice versa.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:47 pm
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I am considering a Folboat Yukon for wilderness travel in Alaska (huge lakes, high winds). I work as a nature photographer require a boat that carry large lenses and cameras (in dry bags of course). In the past I have done fine with renting 21 foot hard-shell sea kayaks (tandems), however, there are limited places to rent these. It is time to buy a folding kayak that I can put on float planes. The Folboat Yukon looks pretty good for what I want (stability) and fast enough tracking. The other option though (??) would be a Folboat Greenland II, which I have read can be paddled solo (albeit much slower). Does anyone have experience with the Folboat Yukon and 7-10 day backcountry trips? I am 6'2" and 165 lbs (tall and thin). Kleppers and Featherweight Designs look great, ..., I am not that rich though :-).


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
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I own a Yukon and I've owned a Greenland. The Greenland and similar doubles are probably overkill for a week long trip, unless you're carrying a few hundred pounds of gear to ballast it. I've done a week in Klepper Aerius II, which has less internal volume than Yukon. The problem with a big folding double is that it has a lot of windage- you'll get blown around a lot. I'm guessing you're carrying a carbon fiber tripod, one or two big, fast lenses (like a 600), some smaller ones, and a couple of bodies. There's a lot of room in the Yukon, and it can easily handle your weight and the gear.

However... if you will be encountering a lot of high winds and waves, and you have good bracing skills, you might consider a longer, narrower, boat. The Yukon is great (I have a friend who paddled the similar but small Aleut around Kodiak Island) but a boat with a finer entry and the ability to roll is better for serious weather.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Southeast Michigan
I own a Yukon and I've owned a Greenland. The Greenland and similar doubles are probably overkill for a week long trip, unless you're carrying several hundred pounds of gear to ballast it. I've done a week in Klepper Aerius II, which has less internal volume than Yukon. The problem with a big folding double is that it has a lot of windage- you'll get blown around a lot. I'm guessing you're carrying a carbon fiber tripod, one or two big, fast lenses (like a 600), some smaller ones, and a couple of bodies. There's a lot of room in the Yukon, and it can easily handle your weight and the gear. If you stay close to shore and won't be encountering really big waves it'll do fine.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:51 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
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If one takes into consideration the materials (hull and frame), the LH is the boat we trust with our lives under any conditions. I'll gladly carry the extra weight if I can convert pounds into reliability and peace of mind. When the you know what hits the fan in some remote location, neither the Folbot, nor Feathercraft, compares to the LH. My humble tested and proven biased $ 0,02

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:45 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:47 pm
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mje wrote:
The problem with a big folding double is that it has a lot of windage- you'll get blown around a lot. I'm guessing you're carrying a carbon fiber tripod, one or two big, fast lenses (like a 600), some smaller ones, and a couple of bodies. There's a lot of room in the Yukon, and it can easily handle your weight and the gear. If you stay close to shore and won't be encountering really big waves it'll do fine.


Thanks for the advice on the Yukon. I now own a Yukon and am getting used to it, while also taking some rescue courses. I will be on Naknek Lake in Katmai National Park. I did the trip last year in a Seda Tango tandem, 21' kayak. That was fine, we stayed close to shore to get off the lake when the willawa winds came up. Same plans for this trip. Yes, I will have large lenses (600mm) and tripods with me, in Watershed Dry bags that have purge valves (that I inflate once in the boat). I will also bring some float bags too. My policy on that lake is get off the water as soon as the winds pick up. Last year we paddled at night (not very dark up there) on very calm water (glass) and made great time, rested on the shore during the day when the winds blew.

As a beginner kayaker I am really seeing the huge difference and tradeoff between a wide stable boat like the Yukon and a more maneuverable kayak that has thigh and hip braces -- more control. For my needs of float plane access the Folbot is the deciding factor.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:47 pm
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Just back from a month in Katmai National Park in Alaska. The Folbot Yukon worked great. We did the Savonoski Loop with a Yukon and Greenland II paddled solo. A slip on the portage by my trip partner bent the left side bow frame on the Yukon and blew out all the rivets. Duct tape and zip ties held it together for 75+ miles. Why do they use rivets instead of screws? Anyway, the Yukon was a dream to paddle and it carried all my photography and camping gear fine. It even was able to out maneuver a Brown Bear that chased me in some rapids ! Read more about my trip here http://inlightofnature.com/in-light-of-nature/kayaking-the-savonoski-loop/ if you are interested.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:52 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
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Excellent trip! Good job reporting it too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Southeast Michigan
Re why they use pop rivets instead of screws: Screws can work loose, unless you use a thread locking adhesive, and require a threaded insert in the tubing- which is installed exactly like a pop rivet, using a similar tool ;-) A riveted joint will hold fast even if the parts aren't snugged up tight. And pop rivets can be made from galvanically compatible materials to those used in the boat, and installed more easily both during construction and repair. I have re-riveted a number of old Folbots using a hand drill and a cheap rivet tool.

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