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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:16 pm 
Hi, though I am a novice in forums, I think this one is a great and helpful one. I entered it two days ago and continue reading with great interest; it is like getting private lessons from professionals!

I am now retired and plan to invest time, which I was lacking till now, to kayaking and other sports activities. I have kayaked on and off on Mediterranean (Israel) , but consider myself as having only basic skills and moderate to low fitness and hope that both will improve with time and with the accumulated paddling experience. Because of time flexibility reasons most of time I plan to paddle alone (not in a group) therefore the paddling locations and conditions will not be very challenging to minimize risk. It may change in the future along with the accumulated experience, hopefully.

I spend some months during the summer in Switzerland, and plan at the beginning to make some short daily trips (1-3 days) with a car to different lakes in Switzerland and other neighboring countries and to paddle there. Some of the locations will be reached by train or plain. I also want to sea paddle on a Mediterranean. (The transportation flexibility, and storage considerations are the main reasons for considering a foldable kayak).
The paddling will include either my grandchildren (15 and 10 years old) or my wife ( she is not a paddler) so in some cases I will paddle solo or in tandem with or without second paddler assistance.(This is the reason for considering tandem kayak). My weight is 85 kg (187 lb) my height is 171 cm (5' 7").

I prefer not to spend too much money for the most expensive equipment at this stage of my paddling activity, but prefer to have a brand new kayak. Can you suggest, based on your experience, which kayak to chose? Also is the consideration of tandem foldable kayak is a correct one. I have limited room for storing my kayak at home, so when stored it will be dismantled and stored in the bag/s.

Looking forwards to your helpful comments.
Thanks
Motty


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:09 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Have you considered Pakboat's XT 17? It's now sold with both solo and tandem decks and I believe there are dealers in Switzerland

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:13 am 
Thanks, not yet. Now knowing about them I will check their kayak. Thanks a lot
Motty


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:45 am 
siravingmon wrote:
Have you considered Pakboat's XT 17? It's now sold with both solo and tandem decks and I believe there are dealers in Switzerland


Hi Simon , just looked in the web on XT 17, seems interesting. Asked packboat's for dealers in Switzerland. My worry at present that there is not enough experience with this kayak. Trying to find more data. They also mention for XT 16, ( believe same material as XT 17) that it is not very good against splashes in the sea. Thanks for athe led.
Motty


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:02 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Xt16 was not a convertable single/double and was made in pvc, as were older xt17s. My understanding is that the newer xt17s are made from the same polyeurethane as my Quest and also feature the newer deck flaps to minimise water ingress. I've found with the Quest that water entry is minimal and even when eskimo rolling it's no big deal

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 8:24 pm 
hi simon
just received a response from packboats. they sell in Europe through Out-Trade at www.out-trade.de
I learned that on 17&18 May , 2014, there is big foldable a testing event in Lake .... near Ulm in Germany, where they will present 40 different foldables, excellent opportunity for me to learn, test and decide what to buy.
thanks again for your assistance
motty


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 11:16 am 
does anybody have experience with scubi 2 foldable? I would like to know:
1. seaworthiness,
2. stability during paddling
3. possibility for two persons, while only 1 paddles, is manageable?
4. self rescuing when fall in wter


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:54 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Oakland, California
Motty

That event near Ulm sounds like a great idea. I highly recommend testing out various kayaks before deciding on a purchase.
I would not dismiss a used kayak out of hand. Condition is everything! Especially doubles in good condition regularly become available. As an example, older Klepper Aerius II's are rock solid, durable and very user friendly. Easily repaired if needed with all parts still available. Kleppers are of course only one option. Stick with Hypalon, PVC or TPU hulls and stay away from the old rubber hulls. An alternative is to purchase just an old frame and add a new skin.
If most of your paddling is solo, consider a single too (perhaps as a future purchase). While most doubles can certainly be paddled solo (with a solo seat set-up), you will likely find that paddling a single is simply more enjoyable. Singles are lighter, pack smaller, accelerate faster and tend to be more maneuverable.
When I purchased my first kayak, I too wanted one that could be used solo and with my better half, had to be rock solid and I did not want to spend too much $ since it would see a fair amount of salt water use. I primarily considered Kleppers, since I knew them from my youth (used, I blanched at the current new prices...) and Folbot Greenlands used or possibly new. Ended up with the Klepper which my better half simply loves!
But for solo use I quickly added a short single (Nautiraid Miniraid 380cm), it complements the Klepper perfectly.

Chris

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:53 pm 
thanks a l'option Chris for your input
regards
Motty


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:11 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Oakland, California
Motty,

I should also add that a double can be perfect as a solo if you intend to sail, pack a large amount of gear, or have a rather large frame. People have paddled doubles solo for years and covered many miles in them.
Doubles tend to also be more stable than their comparable singles, and are just for that reason a valid choice as a first folding kayak.
If you are concerned with storage, adding a short single (later) is not such a major problem. They pack smaller, and at least some (my Nautiraid for example) fit into a single bag.

Chris

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Klepper Aerius II
Nautiraid Miniraid
Klepper T67
Pionier 450 S
Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
P&H Hammer


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 12:45 am 
Chris
What is the folding/unfolding time of Klepper Aerius if done by one person. Number and weight of bags when packed?
Also any fishing experience? ( I thought to add this option as well to my leisure activity, but this is secondary to paddling)
Regards and thanks
Motty


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 1:09 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
Larger doubles are very heavy and pretty unwieldy when paddled solo. Take a look at the Gumtex (Innova) Sunny Inflatable. It can be paddled solo or double, easily inflated and carry in a single bag vs 3 bags for a Klepper type double. I have owned an Aerius 2 and an Innova Helios 2. I can cruise at the same speed in Helios than in the Aerius and it is much more manageable to transport solo. The Long Hauls, Kleppers, Feathercraft doubles are great for long trips. Grabner Incept and Aire are very reputable companies that make inflatable canoes and kayaks.Another option may be a Feathercraft Java.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:31 am 
thanks tsunamichuck for your input
I will look in the web. are these kayaks seaworthy, since I plant to paddle frequently in the Mediteranean


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:05 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:43 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Take a look at both Gumotex Solar 410C and the new Seawave. The Solar is an open kayak like the Sunny, but a true double/single. The Seawave is a double/single with an optional spray-deck.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:03 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
MottyPE wrote:
thanks tsunamichuck for your input
I will look in the web. are these kayaks seaworthy, since I plant to paddle frequently in the Mediteranean

Yes

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Feathercraft K-Light


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