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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:59 am 
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Folbot just got back to me about this issue as well, and you are both correct that their lineup is now all Elvaloy. I am curious to see if they can help me figure out an alternative...perhaps an old stock model of Hypalon or something...but I am not getting my hopes up yet.

Apathizer, as you pointed out the 400lb weight capacity is plenty enough for myself paddling solo. Should be able to fit all my gear with ease. The ability to use an off-brand spray skirt is also a big plus.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:13 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
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Freeburn,

Not to press a point, but it strikes me that you may be putting a huge weight on the service and warranty, and maybe some advice from experience might help here. Folbot used to have some quality issues that made the service guarantee crucial. They have fixed most if not all of the quality issues and now have trouble free boats. I can't speak to the frequency of problems with those boats, but I can tell you that I have never had an issue with my Klepper (with one exception) or Feathercraft, both bought new and used frequently or my 45 year old Klepper, bought used and paddled weekly. I am sure Longhaul owners have the same experience. The boats are very, very well made and when something DOES go wrong it is usually caused by the owner. I have to admit to crash landing my Quattro in the surf on a deserted Florida Key, landing sideways on a huge partially submerged stump. There was no apparent damage until I got back to land 3 days later. When I took the kayak apart i learned that the port/stern gunwale had snapped in half. Don't know if that would have happened with a wooden frame, but my carbon frame broke clean in two. I called Klepper and fessed up to the break being my doing, they said "no problem" and promptly sent TWO gunwales (so that I would have a matched pair in the stern) at no charge. Now, the other surprise here is the redundancy on these kayaks, i paddled and sailed for 3 days with not so much as a groan from the boat. Amazing.
The one area where there is no redundancy is the hull, so you should not venture out overnight unless you are confident you can repair a cut.

Just a few more $.02

g

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1990's A1 Expedition
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:40 pm 
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Going simply off of advice from other users I would pick the Long Haul. I haven't heard any criticism about durability, performance, storage capacity, or service. The biggest reason why I am not going down that route is the difficulty of transporting such a craft in three large heavy bags.

DoiNomazi made it clear that he was willing to go to extremes to get his Long Haul to the final destination, but the intrinsic value of a folding kayak in my mind is the ability to obtain a boat that could accomplish the goals of my trip while still being able to pack down small enough to transport across the country with me on a major airline. If I was to go with a Long Haul, than it seems I minus well just try to figure out the logistics and expenses required to fly my Valley Avocet hardshell out instead.

Does this make sense? I have also set aside budgeting for this trip in general so it isn't the price of the Long Haul that turns me away. Although I would prefer to stay under $2500, I am willing to make what could be a once in a lifetime purchase for a high quality boat for $1000 more. The inability to pack down is all that is keeping me from pulling the trigger at this point.

Of course, I greatly appreciate your points gbellware. Let me know if my logic makes sense, or if you think there is an easy way to solve this issue that I just haven't thought of.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:37 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Being a Long Haul owner, you could say i'm biased, however, it seems to me you are looking for a kayak to use on an expedition lasting 2 week. most all other kayaks don't have the capacity to carry that much weight. I would rather own a no compromise kayak that will last many many years. Great stability and versatility is important to me even though I will never go on such a demanding trip. I believe in buying a kayak that exceeds my needs just in case something happens that I was not expecting. "Fly on Southwest and your bags fly free". :)

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Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:46 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
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FrankP wrote:
Being a Long Haul owner, you could say i'm biased, however, it seems to me you are looking for a kayak to use on an expedition lasting 2 week. most all other kayaks don't have the capacity to carry that much weight. I would rather own a no compromise kayak that will last many many years. Great stability and versatility is important to me even though I will never go on such a demanding trip. I believe in buying a kayak that exceeds my needs just in case something happens that I was not expecting. "Fly on Southwest and your bags fly free". :)

For me (and Freeburn it seems) it's a question of balancing weight/packing size and durability/function/paddling characteristics. As you and many others have said, Long Hauls appear to be great as uncompromised expedition boats, but their packed size, weight, and price are deal-breakers for me.

I'll be using my yak mainly for day trips as well as some short-medium tours of 3-5 days. Consequently, I need/want a boat with moderate storage capacity that offers a happy medium between stability and performance. So for me Pakboats seems to fit the bill. They're fairly stable but still pretty fast and nimble, compact, light and fairly easy to assemble. The XT-17 is also reputedly pretty durable, though not as durable as Long Hauls, Kleppers, or probably even the Kodiak. But since Pakboats are so easily repaired, this is only a minor weakness in my view.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:18 pm 
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Or you can go with a Feathercraft and have durability, speed and the ability to pack your kayak and gear in 2 bags plus a carry-on. Another option would be a sectional hardshell

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Conor,

Well, a lot of advice for you in all our posts, some general and some very specific! Now might be a good time to take a step back, let things sink in and then take a fresh look at the most likely candidates for you. Don't feel pressured to decide now, the better new kayaks should be around when you are ready. It is unfortunate that we don't have a folding kayak center somewhere where you can see and try them all!
Re. number of bags: Yes, many full length singles require multiple bags. The traditional solution is to have a folding kayak cart and transport the bags stacked on top and strapped down. That is how they are taken on trains in Europe. Just as handy at airports and to get to and from the water.

Chris

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:08 pm 
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Chris, thank you for your response. I have become aware that I often ask questions that result in cyclical discussions, and I am definitely guilty of asking questions tailored for the answers I want to hear, and I have tried to be more open-minded.

I have now begun the process of trying to find individuals or companies in my area with boats available that I can check out. As people have mentioned before, this discussion is a great way for me to narrow down my research, but until I see and paddle a craft I shouldn't make a decision...and I agree.

I have spoken with Folbot and will be setting up a meeting in the Virginia area to see the Kodiak. Does anyone happen to know of places in the mid-Atlantic that would have a Long Haul, Klepper or Feathercraft available to see? I know there is a place on the Eastern Shore of Maryland where they supposedly sell PakBoats. Hopefully they will have an XT-17 I can check out.

I know this was originally another user's question, and I apologize for taking it over, but thanks to everyone for being so receptive and helpful in regards to my barrage of questions. I will let you all know what the final decision is (just don't hold your breath)!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:49 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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New York Kayak is a Feathercraft dealer. Klepper is out of business. Long Haul may be able to put you in touch with a local owner

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:15 am 
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Feedback on the Pakboat Puffin Saranac: I spotted your question about this a couple pages back. I've owned both an XT-15 and an earlier Puffin, the Sport (which has the same frame design as the newer Puffins.) The frames are stronger and stiffer in the XT and Quest models. I would be hesitant to commit a Puffin to substantial loading and rough water. I consider them more of a day touring design. If you look on most of the folder manufacturer sites you can find PDF's of the instruction manuals -- looking at these can give you a better idea of how the frames are built.

Yes, the XT cockpit coaming will support an aftermarket spray skirt. We bought a Harmony skirt for the XT-15 which fits nicely.

And, yes, the triple sponsons are a nice backup feature. The first time we took the XT-15 out we had inadvertently mounted the seat wrong and a sharp edge on a fitting made a small puncture in the lower sponson on one side. When we realized it had gone flat we just opened the valve on the corresponding one on the other side o balance it and the kayak performed fine for the rest of the day until we were able to get home and fix it (an easy repair that took a few minutes and has held up fine for 3 years now).

I don't remember if I mentioned to you that Folding Kayak Adventures in Colorado has a free classified ad page for owners of Feathercrafts to advertise their used boats for sale. Somebody about 90 miles west of you (Centreville, VA) is selling an older Khatsalano for $2000.

There have also been occasional deals on eBay lately on Feathercrafts. Not sure what the deal is with this Big Kahuna -- 6 offers but the $2200 is about the reasonable price for one that vintage if in good shape. Not worth more than that.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... k&_sacat=0

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:12 am 
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Thank you kerryonkayaks! I knew there had to be some substantial difference between the XT and the Puffin builds. I also read that the skin of the Puffin isn't the same thickness as the XT.

I have been visiting that Colorado Kayaks page religiously and sent a message the Khatsalano owner just yesterday! Hoping to get down there to visit/demo it so I can get a feel for the product.

Thanks again for the advice.

Conor


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:48 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Feathercraft-Ka ... 4d24ade8f7

This looks like a possible fit for you,

g

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"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:49 pm 
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If you are still shopping for a boat, you might want to know that Pakboat is selling some demo models of their larger XT's, an XT-16 (with dual deck and set up to take a sail) and an XT-17 with both solo and tandem decks. Prices are $1595 which is a nice 20% discount.

http://pakboats.com/index.php?option=co ... cle&id=110

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Pakboat XT-15


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:50 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

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KerryOnKayaks wrote:
If you are still shopping for a boat, you might want to know that Pakboat is selling some demo models of their larger XT's, an XT-16 (with dual deck and set up to take a sail) and an XT-17 with both solo and tandem decks. Prices are $1595 which is a nice 20% discount.

http://pakboats.com/index.php?option=co ... cle&id=110

Yeah, that XT-17 with both the single and double deck set-up seems fantastic, especially at that price. It gives you so many options: It can be a high-volume expedition boat or double boat for day paddles.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:03 pm 
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I actually just closed on a boat a few days ago and it arrived on Friday. Another user pointed me to an ad selling a used K1 in Alaska. The seller gave me a great deal considering it was a once used 2009 model. All the pieces look like they have never been touched. Very excited!

However, I am keeping an eye out for a second boat for my brother (who is out of the country for the time being) so I will definitely pass those Pakboat deals past him to see what he thinks. Thanks for the tip!


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