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 Post subject: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:36 am 
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I find once again the 'need' for a folding kayak, and having rashly moved previous ones on in the interests of [false] economising I am back at the drawing board. I am hoping people can please help me decide on a keeper.

Unfortunately its very difficult to find anywhere to try boats, so other people's impressions are especially valuable in narrowing the search and then if necessary I will make a trip to a dealer in mainland Europe to try for myself.

Criteria include:

I'd like the boat to be an appropriate size, I'm 5'6" (1.68m) and 63kg (138lbs). I'd be using the boat mostly for day paddles, coastal exploring with some more open crossings, occasionally for camping, not (intentionally at least) for surfing or any extreme activities - serene moseying with the capacity to cope if conditions pick up is the objective. Having lost a bit of confidence I value stability more than previously, and speed and tracking are more important than manoeuvrability. Oh and form as well as function is a must! :)

I am keeping an open mind but there are three boats I have been admiring:

Top of my list is the Navigator, which I know is really a lovely boat. Simple to construct and the wood and stainless steel construction is perhaps more durable than an aluminium frame. The only negative being the weight, at 22kg there are others several kg lighter.

The Navigator has a big brother, the longer but lighter Argo. It is only 19kg, however I wonder whether the additional volume would mean it is too big and as with my original hardshell boat I will be bobbing around high in the water unless I add ballast.

Also how could I not want a wisper / wisper xp. Having paddled a K1 it felt awfully big, like you could host a tea party in the cockpit, but it was beautiful all the same... Though a horror to put together, sheesh! But in any case that would require a lottery win /sale of organ to finance, though occasionally they are available 2nd hand so I have never ruled it out completely. Sadly production seems to be discontinued - a clear reason against purchasing as parts could be a problem, but perversely also an irrational reason for, they are a piece of heritage!

If anyone can help, I would be very grateful.


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:51 am 
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As if that wasn't essay enough - I should have added, I don't want to use a rudder.


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:24 am 
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
How about a Long Haul Ute?

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~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:29 am 
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Thanks for the suggestion, I have not come across these before, I'm not sure they are on this side of the pond?


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:16 pm 
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I'm unsure what your budget is, but the Pakboats Quest 135 would fit you well, and it currently a fantastic deal at about $1200 USD. I have the Quest 155 and absolutely love it. I've had it in all kinds of conditions, including some really rough swell and surf I didn't expect. While I hope never to encounter something like that again, it handled the tumultuous waters better than I expected.

That said, I'm sure the craftsmanship and overall quality of the Navigator is higher considering it's price (it's also about 20 pds heavier than the Quest 135). Pakboats aren't as elegant as more expensive boats, but they function very well, esp for the price.


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:12 am 
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Thanks Apathizer, good to know it handled rough water! My roughest condition experience was also unplanned! And though a bit stressful at the time it gave me confidence in the boat I was using. I definitely wouldn't have pushed myself that far out of my comfort zone voluntarily (the fact I was in the company of a 4 star coach made it less scary since it was no big deal for him, though my faith in his trip planning skills were a bit dented as he was equally surprised by the change in weather).

I watched this review of the Pakboat https://goo.gl/BMvbqo, another totally ingenious construction, how long does it take you to put together?

I wonder how paddling speed compares with a hardshell. I'm slower than my partner even when both in conventional kayaks so I don't want to increase that difference too much - particularly since I will already be delaying things with assembly time!

For that reason I will also want to transport ready assembled on the car at times, are all boats equally ok to travel like this?


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:24 am 
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Could anyone with knowledge of the khatsalano S please also advise how stable it is, I believe the non-S is not at all stable relatively speaking, and how voluminous - is it for the larger paddler? I ask as there is a 2nd hand one for sale on this forum, but it is in the USA and how would I know it wasn't a scam...

Ah what an awful dilemma this is turning out to be :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
[img][IMG]http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153/tsunamichuck/Fido.jpg[/img][/img]

The regular Khats was rock stable... Tracking was a different matter.

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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:31 pm 
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Well I'm sure your fancy deck bag didn't help, if you had even put it on straight for goodness sake...


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:44 pm 
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Selkie wrote:
Well I'm sure your fancy deck bag didn't help, if you had even put it on straight for goodness sake...


Rides much better on the stern http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u153 ... vewith.jpg

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:49 pm 
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Don't you hate that paranoid sense that seals are following you...!


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:02 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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I think Apathizer is giving you a good steer on the Quest 135. Don't wait too long-- they're out of production, and selling off the last ones. The company will continue to support them, though.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:34 pm 
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
Or look at a sectional from Valley or Seakayak UK

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Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:54 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
Selkie wrote:
Don't you hate that paranoid sense that seals are following you...!


No I enjoy their company... btw they are sea lions, not seals. Seals tend to be a bit shy

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny


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 Post subject: Re: WBFM, take three...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:04 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 262
Selkie wrote:
...
I watched this review of the Pakboat https://goo.gl/BMvbqo, another totally ingenious construction, how long does it take you to put together?

I wonder how paddling speed compares with a hardshell. I'm slower than my partner even when both in conventional kayaks so I don't want to increase that difference too much - particularly since I will already be delaying things with assembly time!

For that reason I will also want to transport ready assembled on the car at times, are all boats equally ok to travel like this?

I've written quit a bit about the Quest 155 in the Pakboats section (see link below). The paddling performance seems comparable to a similarly sized hard shell. It feels pretty rigid. In really rough conditions there's probably a bit of flex, but that would my least concern in those situations.

Check the Pakboats section. I've never car-topped mine, but others have without any problems. It's a good idea to let a bit of air out of the tubes to make sure it expand in the sun, but other than that I don't know of any other issues:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6085


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