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 Post subject: Folding questions
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:18 pm 
My wife and I have canoed for years, and done just a little kayaking (mostly rentals on vacation) I am am in search of a folding or inflatable canoe or kayak option that will transport in the trunck of a Honda, or in the back of my truck, and found this site.

We want a tandem option, as my wife does not want to paddle on her own. I am 6' 230, my wife is 5'5" 140. We will mostly float in flat water rivers and lakes. But would like something ocean worthy for island hopping.

I have looked at several inflatable options on line. Most have great set up and take down videos. I was looking at PakBoats. Their designs look like what I might want. But I can not find a single picture or video of the folded size or the set up process. Seems very odd.

So looking for some options that would fit my needs and where I can see the set up/take down process and sizes


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 6:52 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 282
I'm a big fan of Pakboats since they offer quality boats for a great value. They're a little tricky to assemble at first, but once you get used to it, it's not that difficult. If you won't be packing much gear I think the XT-17 might be a great option. It can be set up as either a single or tandem, with a max payload of 400 pds. It's intended as either an expedition boat for large paddlers or day paddling/short trips for two paddlers.

Pakboats will send you a file of the instructions if you email them. I don't know much about tandems, but I it seems like the best value right now, esp considering the uncertainty of Folbot's future.

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Pakboats Quest 155.

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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:21 pm 
Apathizer wrote:
I'm a big fan of Pakboats since they offer quality boats for a great value. They're a little tricky to assemble at first, but once you get used to it, it's not that difficult. If you won't be packing much gear I think the XT-17 might be a great option. It can be set up as either a single or tandem, with a max payload of 400 pds. It's intended as either an expedition boat for large paddlers or day paddling/short trips for two paddlers.

Pakboats will send you a file of the instructions if you email them. I don't know much about tandems, but I it seems like the best value right now, esp considering the uncertainty of Folbot's future.


I emailed Pakboats Saturday about instructions. I was hoping someone here could point me to a video


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:39 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 535
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
I agree with "Apathizer", having had many folders including two Pakboat kayaks and being former part owner of one of their XT models, that these are great "bang for the buck" boats. In terms of packed size, they fold down into medium to large sized duffel bags. The XT-15 my former partner had fit into one about half the size of the big standard army duffels. The XT-17, being 2' longer and with the same frame structure, would likely be a little larger but would still fit easily in the trunk of even a compact car. If you've ever owned a car camping type 4-person nylon tent, a Pakboat XT kayak would be roughly equivalent to the packed size of one of those.

At 15 pounds lighter and $750 less expensive, the Pakboat Puffin Saranac could also be a good choice for you. The Saranac can also be converted from solo to tandem, has the same weight rating and has the added advantage of being a boat you can use open without the optional deck (the deck is part of the structure in the XT's so it has to be used with them.) The Puffin models don't have as stiff a frame as the XT's, but the Puffins are still quite seaworthy for the kinds of conditions you have stated you wish to explore.

Pakboat is a rather small operation here in the US and, though they are nice products and they have good customer service, they are a little nonchalant about marketing and keeping their website updated. They have yet to post a PDF of their assembly instructions for the Quest models they started selling 2 years ago and do not have videos available for any of their boats. It just is not that kind of company. You can find some YouTube videos of people assembling their own Pakboats if you want a feel for the process. The designs are clever and once you know the steps for putting them together they are easier to set up than some other more costly folders like the Feathercrafts I've owned.

Here is an owner video of the XT-16 assembly, which would be nearly identical to the XT-17.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDHqVBLln0k

This one showing the Saco (the solo Puffin) in its duffel and as assembled, is in Thai language but you can still see how it works and the size of the packed boat. This is the Saco as assembled without a deck. The optional deck would cover the whole boat except for the cockpit and attach to the velcro along the gunwale perimeter just as do the black nylon end covers he is using

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgypGh1O5XA

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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:54 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Kerry, I'm curious about how/why the Packboats XT model decks are part of their structure, as this is not the case with the Quest models. Could you please elucidate?

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:40 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
The pakboats are great. But a Klepper--or a used Klepper-- might be worth considering if you want to go the kayak route. One thing that stands out about the Kleppers is how easy and quick they are to put together compared to some of the alternatives.


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:16 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 am
Posts: 394
Location: Coastal New Jersey
Easy and quick assembly is a great big plus if you must put the boat together very often. I think, too, that the capacious Klepper cockpit might be a nice thing for the comfort seeking paddler.


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 1:11 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 822
Location: atlanta, georgia
FunN4Lo,

Oh boy, what a can of worms you just opened!

Kleppers are great boats and you can find a used one at a great price, but you have to know what you are doing to make sure you inherit somebody's headache. They make great sailers if you have a mind, that is how I use mine almost any time I am solo. The downside is that they are heavy and difficult to manage alone (I don't mean in the water, the double is fine to paddle alone as long as you have a rudder). And I am not sure you can fit the long bag in the trunk of a Honda. No problem with a truck, but don't know about a small car. My wife and I have resorted to a folding boat trailer and with it I can handle my 18 foot Klepper with ease, I made a set of rollers that make loading and unloading simple.

I have not paddled the Quest but everything I hear about them is good. They are not as rugged as the three big guns (Feathercraft, Klepper, and LongHaul) but it doesn't sound like you guys are looking for an expedition kayak. And the Quests are less than half the weight of the expedition boats. Downside is no rudder and I don't know if they can be rigged to sail?

The other option that has a huge following is Folbot, they are somewhere between the Klepper and Quest in terms of beafiness. Downside is that they are probably going to depreciate a bit faster than will the kayak lines that are supported by a going concern. But they are well built and have a huge community of knowledgable paddlers who will likely keep the kayaks in good shape for decades.

So there is my $.02, Hope I did more than confuse the issue!

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
36' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:28 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1750
Location: Southeast Michigan
If you're looking for an expedition boat that will last for decades, the only US-made option left, with the collapse of Folbot, is Long Haul. A Long Haul or a used Klepper will last a very long time, can be repaired in the field, and is rugged enough for an Arctic expedition. I've owned, or own, Kleppers, Folbots, Long Hauls, Nautiraids, and Feathercrafts, as well as a few inflatables. It's hard to beat the Long Haul and the original German-made Kleppers.

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Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:12 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 282
gbellware wrote:
...
I have not paddled the Quest but everything I hear about them is good. They are not as rugged as the three big guns (Feathercraft, Klepper, and LongHaul) but it doesn't sound like you guys are looking for an expedition kayak. And the Quests are less than half the weight of the expedition boats. Downside is no rudder and I don't know if they can be rigged to sail?

Apparently yes, they can because I remember selling them on their web site with sail-rig installed.

gbellware wrote:
The other option that has a huge following is Folbot, they are somewhere between the Klepper and Quest in terms of beafiness. Downside is that they are probably going to depreciate a bit faster than will the kayak lines that are supported by a going concern. But they are well built and have a huge community of knowledgable paddlers who will likely keep the kayaks in good shape for decades.

It's my understanding that the Folbot Greenland II is fairly comparable to Klepper and Long Haul. It's probably not quite as durable, but in that regard should be more than adequate.

As for the Pakboats XT 17, it's my understanding that it's also pretty durable. Again, not as durable as, but should be more than adequate for anything but surf and whitewater.


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 Post subject: Re: Folding questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:38 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 616
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
I think the XT would be fine in surf- apparently it's far more rigid than it needs to be with those side ladders, so much so that they even made a 19 or 20 foot prototype racing version that did well in its class.
Even the Quest is ok in surf, it's just not quite rigid enough in torsion to easily make small directional changes on a wave face past 10/15 degrees, but then most (longer) sea kayaks I've tried don't like doing that anyway. I've trashed my Quest in surf with no ill effects apart from the difficulty of getting sand out of the gunwale sleeves (a PITA!)

_________________
Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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