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 Post subject: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:39 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:28 pm
Posts: 3
Hi, Have decided ton invest in a folder but as the only ones I have seen has been a 2 seater inflable here I'd be grateful for some input from others. +
Female 5' 2'' looking for something that will do coastal waters of the atlantic wouldn't be aiming to go out on stormy weather but would like to know if things turned bad I would have some reassurance in what I'm sitting in. Id also like a folder that would be able to keep up with the pack with out with club and aim to do some races this year and although not looking to win I'm not aiming to put a handicap on myself and to miles behind others.

So far have narrowed it down to the Narval Kitta or the Nautaurid Narak 500.

I did look at the wayland proximo but doesn't seem to be back in stock for another few months, the Wisper looks like a thing of beauty but very expensive. I don't have access to view or sit on any of these before I buy so would welcome any thoughts.


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:02 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 608
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Hi there and welcome to the forum!

I'm guessing you are on the USA east coast? It'd be helpful to know your strength and previous experience with hardshells, but unless you are a strong paddler, then at 5‘ 2", for day trips or overnighters I'd really recommend a Pakboats Quest 135 if you can still get one (spares will be available indefinitely but they've stopped production). I have little difficulty maintaining 4 knots when I'm in good shape or staying with the pack on longer trips in mine. It's also very good in rough water once you lower the seat. I'm 5‘7” but only 150 lb and at the current discounted price you won't find a better folder for a lightweight paddler, as long as you take good care of it (it also has a more modern, faster, swede form hull shape than the Wisper)

As a smaller paddler, unless you are particularly strong you should be more interested in wetted surface area than length, within reason. I had a Nautiraid Narak 550 before and although it was much faster in a sprint, it was harder for me, a relatively weak paddler, to maintain 4 knots for extended periods.

The Kitta looks interesting, particularly the low weight, but I haven't seen any reviews and I doubt it'll be cheap. My comment on wetted surface area above applies. Long kayaks without skegs can be harder work to keep on track downwind too unless you are dead straight downwind, due to weathercocking. The 135 Quest tracks well and is easy to control in side and tail winds. Wooden framed kayaks are a thing of beauty in motion of course and it's easy to be seduced by that... (don't I know it!)

The current Nautiraid 500 is a bit of a barge from the specs for fast paddling. It's very wide and also heavy, so you won't be able to accelerate easily to catch waves or cross ferry channels. Lugging it around will also be a pain. You may also have to modify the coaming to get a sprayskirt to stay on if it's anything like my Narak.

The Proximo looks interesting too but search comments in this forum on Wayland first. Shame it's so wide... I also see that it's been withdrawn from sale until Spring 2016. It'd be good to know why.

Hope this helps (and that I don't get flamed by too many Wisper owners :D )

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:11 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1712
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Welcome Conbd,

Please post an intro in the Introduction section.

Thank you,

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 1:23 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:28 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks knight of the folding kayak realm I am based in the west coast of Ireland
The quest 135 seems interesting haven't come across it in any reviews before so will do some digging

The boats I mentioned are both based in Europe ish as shipping costs I assume would be significant

Used to have a plastic but was too big so am left with my creeker which I do ww grades 2 and 3 in and spent summer doing coastal kayaking in creeker maybe 4-5miles a day


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:30 am 
forum fanatic
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:25 am
Posts: 77
Hello :)

I'm in the UK and know someone who may be selling an excellent condition 2013 Wisper for a lot less than new - by coincidence they got in touch 3 days after I found mine, also 2013! Let me know if you'd like me to make enquiries.

And since your on this side of the pond you could also consider the Nortik Navigator? Reed / Chillcheater had a red one available in the South of England quite recently and the guy is really helpful when it comes to shipping and keeps costs as low as possible.


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:47 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 am
Posts: 393
Location: Coastal New Jersey
The FC Wisper would be a good kayak for paddling coastal waters if you didn't need to assemble the boat too often. My experience with the Wisper amounted to less than a single day in the cockpit in the Gulf of Mexico but I found the boat to be entirely enjoyable without bad habits except for the usual issue of weathercocking, something easily corrected with the attachable skeg that comes as standard equipment. The Wisper is not what I'd call a "swift" kayak; I found it to be something more like work while trying to hold pace with my paddling companion when the GPS on his surfski reached or exceeded 4 knots. It took considerably less effort to hold a sedate 3 to 3.5 knots. But, it should be kept in mind that I'm a rather lazy fellow and if I were willing to make the effort required for fast paddling, I'd paddle a long surfski. But, as they say,YMMV. Because I felt that the Kurrent offered a better compromise in the way of relatively straight forward assembly, light weight, large cockpit and similar cruising speed, I chose it rather than the Wisper. If I could have had another go of it before the Aironaut was discontinued :(, that would have been my first choice. Still, if I could have but one kayak to paddle for the remainder of my days, the Wisper would not be an unworthy choice. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:21 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 277
ContBD wrote:
Thanks knight of the folding kayak realm I am based in the west coast of Ireland
The Quest 135 seems interesting haven't come across it in any reviews before so will do some digging

Since I don't know your price range, the Quest 135 would fit you well and is a fantastic value for it discontinued price. The Feathercraft Wisper is certainly a higher-quality yak, but it's more difficult to assemble and more than twice as expensive.

I have a Quest 155 which I love. Since siravingmon has the 135 he can provide more first hand info. Here's a very good review from adventure kayak. [Note: They adjusted the seats after the height issue was discovered, so it's no longer an issue.]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBXGG7KO1MQ


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:54 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1229
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Look at sectional Valley Kayaks and Seakayak UK

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:25 am
Posts: 77
This might interest you, NAUTIRAID NARAK 460 buy-it-now £1500

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NAUTIRAID-NAR ... SwUuFWzZWG


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:40 am 
forum fanatic
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Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:25 am
Posts: 77
Unusual amount of folders on UK eBay!

Folbot Cooper Folding Sea Kayak http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Folbot-Cooper ... SwUuFWuG9E

and

Track Seeker
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trak-kayak-se ... SwQYZWwnwG


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 9:48 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1712
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Cute hyperbole-- Folbot Cooper is "the best of the best"? I'm not knocking it, it's known for being a great value, and I haven't been in one, but there is some stiff competition. The things people say to get your money...

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:47 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 277
chrstjrn wrote:
Cute hyperbole-- Folbot Cooper is "the best of the best"? I'm not knocking it, it's known for being a great value, and I haven't been in one, but there is some stiff competition. The things people say to get your money...

Yeah. 'Best of the best'? Not by a long shot. Pakboats and Folbot offer great value, but anyone with even a cursory knowledge of folders understand they aren't among the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:42 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1712
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
They are the quickest to assemble and the best values, to be fair, and they are both very decent to paddle.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject: Vanishing Quests
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:26 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 510
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
If you are considering the Quest 135 you may need to act fairly quickly. They ran out of the 155's not long ago and are drawing down the remaining stock with a 25% discount. I just bought the last demo they had. Felt a little guilty about it, since I already have two folders, but I as I get older and less flexible I would prefer something a little less tricky to set up and a little lighter than the Wisper as an alternative. My venerable Puffin is light but is a little wide and slow for many of my trips. I had been considering the Quest for a long time and realized this could be my last chance to get one.

Alv at Pakboat has an XT-15 for sale in Norway which might be easier for you to have shipped, but that could be a bit large for you. I'm 5' 5" and 150 lbs, though I'm short in the upper body (so for paddling purposes I'm more equivalent to a 5' 3" person) and used to occasionally paddle my ex-boyfriend's XT-15. It was very comfortable and paddled well, in fact due to the length I could keep up with people in hard shell touring kayaks easily. Cargo volume and access is a dream with XT's so they are great extended tripping boats. But if you are slender you might feel a little lost in the cockpit.

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Current:
Feathercraft Wisper
Pakboat Quest 135
Pakboat Puffin 12
Pakboat Swift 14
Greenland SOF
P & H Easky 15LV
Previous:
Feathercraft Kahuna
Feathercraft K-1 Expedition
Pakboat XT-15


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 Post subject: Re: Kayak for speed
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:51 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:09 pm
Posts: 277
chrstjrn wrote:
They are the quickest to assemble and the best values, to be fair, and they are both very decent to paddle.

The Trak (current model 'Seeker') assembles much faster, though it's my understanding their preported sub 10 min assembly is a bit optimistic. 12-15 min is more realistic, which is still very quick. However, it costs about $1K+ more and is significantly heavier (though not unwieldy).

The Cooper paddles well in calm to moderate conditions, but the flexy frame doesn't do well in rough conditions. So far paddling my Quest seems all but indistinguishable from hard shells. While neither is as watertight as the Seeker or other high-end folders, this normally isn't a significant issue except for really picky paddlers.

For those wanting a quality yak for less than $2K, Pakboats and Folbot seem to be the only options as far as I know.


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