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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:53 am 
My Cooper sags fairly significantly when I put it on my Yakima racks with the "hullyrollers" on back, and the "Mako Saddles" up front. I definitely need to use something other than the "hullyrollers" on the rear bar, as they tend to slide off the longerons and dig into the boat skin itself. But the primary problem is that the boat sags too much. On my last trip, the upper stern deck strut pulled apart from the cockpit frame. So I have a couple of questions:

First, do you guys transport the Cooper upside down when on racks? or...

Do you use a different rack system that puts the bars farther apart?

I'm thinking I could get that extra rack that attaches to the hitch on my truck so that it adds a 3rd bar that is much further back. I can then rest the stern end of my Cooper on this bar and it would provide what I think would be the necessary support needed.

I originally bought this rack system for a hardshell, but I'm trying to use it with my Cooper. Here is a picture of the problem:

Image


One other option would be to get the "Bow Down" system, but I really don't want to lay out that kind of cash only to find out it's not going to work right. Here is a link to the Bow Downs:

http://www.yakima.com/racks/kayak-rack/product/8004042/bowdown.aspx


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
JCB,

I think you have two problems:

1. the boat needs to be stiffer. If it is sagging that much on the rack, from its own weight, it is sagging (the other direction) a lot more with your body weight in the center when you are paddling. It would be a dog of a boat that floppy. Send that photo to Folbot and ask them what to do. I think they will suggest tightening the handwheel at the stern and/or installing a stiffening kit.

2. That rack system has so little separation between crossbars that any boat would be a bit compromised by it. That vehicle looks like it is one of those sort-of-pickups. Get a Dry Dock from Yakima that indexes into the receiver hitch and support your boats by it and a single crossbar over the cab. I have one, and it is killer: http://www.yakima.com/racks/kayak-rack/ ... ydock.aspx

I also have an Outdoorsman, which is my main rack, but unless you have at least a 5-foot PU bed, and rails to support it, you will have to go with the Dry Dock.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:35 pm 
Dave, that Dry Dock you linked to was the type of "3rd bar" I was talking about. I already have a hitch receiver on my truck, so I thought that it might be the solution to my problem. But you are saying I should remove the rear bar currently on my truck if I get the drydock.

As for the excessive sagging, I should probably add a couple of other facts to get your feedback. I did deflate the sponsoons before putting the Cooper on the racks, because I was afraid they might get pinched when tightening the holding straps. Do you leave the sponsoons inflated? Also, instead of using tie-downs on the bow and stern carry handles, I used extra-long bungee cords. However, I do want to point out that they are only applying moderate downward pressure. Should I skip using these?

I would have liked to have skipped buying the Yakima racks to begin with. I have a perfectly good rack system from Mirage that put the bars further apart:

http://www.rackwarehouse.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2525 (I think these used to be referred to as the "rack in a bag")

However, they were designed for a longer truck bed, so I couldn't use them after I sold my Chevy S10 and bought the Ford Sportrak. And yes, it's definitely a "sort-of-pickup" -- basically a Ford Explorer with the rear-end converted to a pickup bed. In hindsight, I would not have bought this vehicle (for many reasons), but I'm stuck with it for now.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:32 pm 
Yakima saddles and rollers don't work well with folders. Get foam cradles that are put on the bars (MEC has them, don't know if US stores like REI do). Bungee cords are not a good idea either. The boat is still about 40 lbs, and a lot of wind resistance when driving - you don't want it to get airborn or sway in all the directions. Use normal 1" strap with metal buckles. Sponsons are usually not deflated when transporting a folder on roofrack, and this is definitely contributing to sagging (though Cooper is known to have this problem, and stiffening kit that Dave menitoneed might still be useful). Some people deflate sponsons partially, in hot sun or going through high elevation mountain passes, otherwise - no need to deflate them.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 4:55 pm 
About those 1" straps with the metal buckles, I did get two of them when I bought the Yakima rack system. I'm thinking you can't really tighten them much, or it will put too much pressure on the ends. How tight should these be?

Also, what does "MEC" stand for? Foam blocks sound like they might be a solution.

Thanks for the info.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:08 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1100
Location: isles of scilly UK
Three ways, 1 a ladder on the rack that the boat sits on, (see one in the photo gallery), 2 put a extra rack up from your pick up, (see spring creek web site), It,s a fold up, i have never transported my Kleppers or Folbot assembled in over 30 years.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:23 pm 
Quote:
It,s a fold up, i have never transported my Kleppers or Folbot assembled in over 30 years.


I find it to be too big of a pain to go down to the Harbor or local lake, then spend another 1/2hr setting it up when all I want to do is paddle for a couple of hours. And this doesn't take into account the breakdown/cleaning after kayaking. In fact, if I had to do that every time, I think I would just sell it and go with a hardshell. Actually, I'm starting to think about putting it up for sale, but I plan to use it at least until I finish building my Pygmy Coho. However, since I've already spent the money, it might be better to keep it for that occasional trip, or to use as a loaner kayak for friends.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions (I'll look up that photo of using a ladder as a platform for the kayak to rest on.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:48 pm 
JCBII wrote:
Also, what does "MEC" stand for? Foam blocks sound like they might be a solution.

http://www.mec.ca. This is what I meant: http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524442620484&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302700901&bmUID=1225834844054. Should be available south of the border - they are made in the USA (must've been overlooked by Chinese importers).

Quote:
I find it to be too big of a pain to go down to the Harbor or local lake, then spend another 1/2hr setting it up when all I want to do is paddle for a couple of hours. And this doesn't take into account the breakdown/cleaning after kayaking. In fact, if I had to do that every time, I think I would just sell it and go with a hardshell.

Welcome to the club. This was the reason for me to install a kayak sling over my car in condo parkade and keep a fiberglass kayak there for local short paddling. Foldable Kahuna will still have its niche for remote destinations (no longer than 10 day trips, otherwise K1 is better), or for weekend trips involving ferry (to avoid exorbitant surcharge when you take a car on ferry, not to mention long lines of cars on ferry terminal on weekends, while pedestrians are boarding before the cars).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
JCB,

Yes, inflate the sponsons.

No, strapping the kayak to the racks will not hurt it, although Alex's point about the hully rollers and some cradles being hard on folders is accurate. I just slip some thin closed cell foam between the cradle/hully roller at each contact and call it good. If you want, slip some foam between the strap and the deck, also, where the strap crosses the center of the deck.

I agree 100% with the others about bungees: avoid them like the plague. Straps are the best. Avoid thin line, also (< 5/8 inch D).

As to end-ties: they ae there just as security in case a strap or rack fails, to give you time to pull over. They should be snug, but overly tight. It is easy to over-stress a folder frame if you reef on them.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2009 8:58 am 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Stone Mountain, Ga. U.S.A.
Wow. I've yet to place my Feathercraft K-1 on my Thule rack
http://www.thuleracks.com/product.asp?d ... 10&sku=884
The back pads are fine for the hard shell, but don't look like they will work well on a folder. Alex's MEC solution may work ( for the rear at least ) in my situation as well. We have them at the local REI here in Atlanta.

Chris

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"No matter where you go, there you are."

Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 150


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:06 am 
I would keep a close watch on the hull where it touches the saddle my boat has a small wear point wear the rubber is getting thin down to the fabric that is surrounded by black. It looks like due to the flex at speeds that saddle can build up a lot of friction and wear through.


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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:20 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:03 am
Posts: 180
Location: Arizona, USA
In addition to what has been said, something that seems obvious to me might be a problem, so I welcome the correction if I've erred in thinking, but -

To aid the sag, why not place a "kingpin" in the cockpit of sufficient height (anchor it to the frame inside the cockpit somehow), and (I'm assuming there are ground-handling handles on both bow and stern) run a length of webbing bow-to-stern over the kingpin and connected to said ground-handling toggles or handles to suspend both ends ... Voila', no more sagging.

Whoever actually does the rigging determines how much lift the bow and stern get by how they tie the webbing to the Kingpin. It is a "low-rent," low-impact solution, or partial solution (depending on whether rack augmentation choices suggested by others is/are also chosen and implemented).

Am I out of my depth with this suggestion ?

Kenton

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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:17 am 
This is my arrangement:

Image

Supports are about 6' apart. I also padded rollers and saddle with rigid 2" foam sheets. No bowline, but I have double tie across the front deck. For long transits I use bowline though. Normally I also use foam pads over the deck to prevent chafing, as on lower picture - left kayak front deck tie:

Image

My advice to JCB II would be to place a couple of 2x4's on the roof rack - about 10' long each as a form of craddle for the kayak. Those should be tied well to the rack! :shock: :oops:

I always use cockpit cover for transit to prevent inside of the kayak from rain and road dust.


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PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:55 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Stone Mountain, Ga. U.S.A.
Gregn,

Funny how great minds think alike :lol: . After loading the K-1 on our new Thule system, I was not happy with the set up on the rear pads and the way it sat on the underside of the boat. Here was my quick/removable solution that looks a little like what you did.

Easy to remove to haul my hardshell. I only did this on the rear pads as it rides nicely on the more conventional front saddles.

Image

Image
Chris

_________________
"No matter where you go, there you are."

Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 150


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:32 am 
kayakamper wrote:
Gregn,

Funny how great minds think alike :lol: . After loading the K-1 on our new Thule system, I was not happy with the set up on the rear pads and the way it sat on the underside of the boat. Here was my quick/removable solution that looks a little like what you did.

Easy to remove to haul my hardshell. I only did this on the rear pads as it rides nicely on the more conventional front saddles.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40 ... ics019.jpg

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40 ... ics018.jpg
Chris


I like this setup... By the way where did you bought this kayak roof carrier? I've been looking for this truck accessories but have no luck finding one that I like.


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