Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:24 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:37 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
Hi all,
The question is annoying since nothing seems to really fit the bill.
Has anyone fallen upon a proper discussion about toxicity. Yes, they may all be poisonous, but some has to be less poisonous than others.

I bought 'ballistic nylon' for my last project. It needs a 'paint' or something to waterproof it. I cannot come on better ideas than silicon rubber .. are there other options?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:21 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Toxicity in production is the reason that some manufacturers have switched from PVC to urethene.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:27 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1225
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Whale, walrus or seal skin is probably the most environmentally friendly product.

_________________
Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:46 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
It's only legal to acquire those if you are Inuit...

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:42 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1225
Location: Anchorage Alaska
chrstjrn wrote:
It's only legal to acquire those if you are Inuit...

Yupik, Inupiat, Aleut, Tglingit and Athabascan can as well

_________________
Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Innova Helios 380
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:02 am 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
Wikipedia writes about 'Health & Safety':
"Fully reacted polyurethane polymer is chemically inert.[38] No exposure limits have been established in the U.S. by OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) or ACGIH (American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists). It is not regulated by OSHA for carcinogenicity."

and about usability:
"Polyurethanes are used in the manufacture of high-resilience foam seating, rigid foam insulation panels, microcellular foam seals and gaskets, durable elastomeric wheels and tires (such as roller coaster, escalator, shopping cart, elevator, and skateboard wheels), automotive suspension bushings, electrical potting compounds, high performance adhesives, surface coatings and surface sealants, synthetic fibers (e.g., Spandex), carpet underlay, hard-plastic parts (e.g., for electronic instruments), condoms, [6] and hoses."

.. a spandex-skin may really fit the inner structure ;o)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:06 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
If I build a hull, I will use PVC. As you say, it is inert in use, and it is easiest to work with. Also relatively light weight and sturdy.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 5:18 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:17 pm
Posts: 9
Canvas and latex paint

_________________
Folbot Super


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:39 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
hi folks,
great input. I've really felt on wavy ground choosing the skin.
About the animal-skins .. wouldn't they go stiff when drying up? That could be a problem for a folder.

thanks


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:55 am 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
Hi again,
I tested my new-build kayak yesterday. I was not water-tight, but takes in a liter an hour. So I went home to look for the stitches below the waterline. There were none, meaning that the skin is simply not watertight!
I've use an inner thin, elastic & rubber-covered (and watertight) skin and an outer untreated ballistic nylon. I've furthermore separated the skin into a deck and a lower hull part assembled by a long broad velcro-band all way around .. previous experience about shrinking skin caused this decision (and it already proved appropriate). To find that this major skin-exercise has failed in delivering perfection is slightly unbearable.

Carsten


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:40 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
Mending the leaking double-skin was as close to a fiasko you come, and still get some kind of result. I cut open the inner skin and tried to add a thin cover of silicon-rubber between the two skins (if you ever felt like a chicken in a gui barrel of tar!). Embarrassing work. A lot of the cuts are now leaking fast, but, atleast I can see where and do something about it. I don't know if the quiet seep through the skin is still going on, but I'll find out soon enough.
The broad velcro-band that attaches deck and hull-skin to each other takes well care of the still shrinking skin .. on the short length across the kayak. But I'm running out of skin at the ends. I did know that cloth are usually washed before using the sewing-machine, but I skipped it and now face the consequences.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:51 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 465
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
The usual coating for ballistic nylon is 2-part urethane. I have a traditional Greenland skin-on-frame kayak made of a wood frame (non folding) with sewn on 9 ounce ballistic nylon skin coated with that kind of urethane. It extremely waterproof, flexible and very very tough.

Here are some photos of that boat:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/snapdoodl ... 3546790357

You will find much good information on kayak building materials and coatings on the traditional Greenland kayaking forums at http://www.qajaqUSA.org

_________________
Current:
Feathercraft Wisper
Pakboat Quest 135
Pakboat Puffin 12
Pakboat Swift 14
Greenland SOF
P & H Easky 15LV
Previous:
Feathercraft Kahuna
Feathercraft K-1 Expedition
Pakboat XT-15


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:56 am 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
KerryOnKayaks

It certainly sounds like something that I missed all my kayak-building lift.
But also like something that is toxic - not particularly to me, but rather to the wet environment.
The urethane-stuff is on my "to investigate" list for the next skin/kayak
... wonderful pictures!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:27 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1379
Location: South Salem, NY
Got any birch trees in the yard?

I got a chuckle out of that canvas and paint idea... but I like it.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:43 am 
forum fan

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 6:39 am
Posts: 17
"Nylon 6 is becoming the new green darling of designers "

in

https://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/2012 ... -nylon-66/


... I haven't gone all wrong using ballistic nylon then


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group