Old Newbie

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BPDon

Old Newbie

Post by BPDon »

Just joined your forum.

I recently purchased a used but nice Klepper Aerius II, with a S-4 sail rig. When I was a kid, we had a Folbot which was a lot of fun, but the skin rotted in the sun and the skin could not be replaced.

So- now want to learn how to paddle again. Also I am looking for information on using the S-4 sail rig, and finding a source to repair sails, as the sails which came with the boat are ripped.

I live in the San Francisco bay area of California

Don

Alm

Post by Alm »

I don't think you should repair the ripped sails. Synthetic fibers degrade with time, and old fabric may be useless to repair. Kayaking sails are so small and ineffective, and kayak hull also results in rather poor performance under sails, compared to real sailboat. Patches ans seams will further reduce the efficiency. May be you should just patch and/or sew those ripped pieces together, to get an idea if this rig is something that you need. Otherwise, - get a new sail rig after you've made sure that you want this. Sometimes people sell S4, but not very often. If this is an old version, it can be a natural canvas, and then gluing is difficult, and synthetic ones are better anyway.

BPDon

Old Newbie

Post by BPDon »

Hi Alex-

Thank you for your thoughts on the sail rig. This S-4 has aluminum masts, boom, etc. I am sure the sails are synthetic, nylon I guess. I was hoping I could find a place in the San Francisco area which would repair them at a reasonable price. Then, as you suggest, I could try out the sails and see if it is worth the trouble. The sails have been unused for at least the 10 years the previous owner owned the boat. The owner prior to him must have used them and not taken much care of the sails. I would guess the boat and sails are at least 25 years old. The jib has only about 8 inches of line (sheet?) coming out of the top, which is supposed to be long enough to come down the mast and tie off at the base so it is a good 10 or more feet too short. The mainsail has several rips of moderate (8 inch to a foot) length. So- I need to find a good sail repair shop. A new jib and mainsail would cost more than I paid for the boat.

Any suggestions on how to find a good sail repair shop in the San Francisco bay area?

Any suggestions on a good source of info on setting up the S-4 sail rig?

I have the information from the US Klepper dealer website, but that info on the web refers to diagrams which are not included in the download. It is not clear how the gaff boom is supposed to go into the sail and clamp to the mast at the center of the gaff boom.

Thank you!!

Alm

Post by Alm »

You can glue patches of nylon yourself (if this is nylon, not polyesther). Polyesther can be glued too, I think. Try asking these guys about particulars of S4 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailing_canoes/ . There is also a site in German
http://www.faltboot.de/dt/home.html
with forum http://www.faltboot.de/forum/index.php - you may post question in English, but the answers will likely be in German, and Google translation tools work funny :-)

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

I have the information from the US Klepper dealer website, but that info on the web refers to diagrams which are not included in the download. It is not clear how the gaff boom is supposed to go into the sail and clamp to the mast at the center of the gaff boom.
I have an S4 rig myself, say again your question ? I might be able to help if I understand the problem...

BPDon

Post by BPDon »

Let me try to explain----

The gaff boom is a 2 piece boom, which is supposed to slip into a hem like pocket along the top edge of the mainsail.

The 2 pieces of my gaff boom are very different.

One is a simple piece of aluminum tube, which slips into the top end of the pocket running along the top of the mainsail. No problem

The other piece of the gaff boom has a large hook on the lower end, for hooking around the main mast. About 2/3 of the way up on this piece of aluminum tube, there is a big device which is screwed to this section of the gaff boom, and which is designed to snap/clip around the mainmast.

My first question is: how do you put this lower section of the gaff boom into the hem like pocket on the sail without unscrewing the big clip assembly, sliding the boom into the pocket, and reattaching the clip after this section of the gaff boom is in the sail? The instructions I found from the Klepper website don't address this clip issue at all.

Maybe this is what I have to do, but it really seems like there should be a better way.

Second question is: Regarding the halyard which raises the gaff boom- Where do you fasten this halyard to the gaff boom?

Thank you!!

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

This is a picture I took of my rig... does it help ?

Image

BPDon

Post by BPDon »

Very Interesting!!

The design appears to be a bit different.

Your rig has the hook which goes around the mainmast at the bottom end of the gaff boom, as does my rig.

However, in the gap in the sail pocket where the gaff boom is (about at a level with a little below the top of the mainmast), I have a snap/clip fitting which snaps around the mainmast, to keep the gaff boom from falling toward the rear of the boat.

I don't see this snap/clip device on your rig. What keeps the gaff boom from falling toward the rear of the boat? Does the halyard to raise the gaff boom attach to the gaff boom in the gap in the pocket, and also keep the gaff boom close to the mainmast?

In a previous post in the sailing area, you mentioned you had the instructions for the S-4 rig? Did you ever scan them? If so, I would be interested.

Also, do you know how long is the rope coming out of the top of the jib?
This rope was cut on my jib, and is only about 8 inches long- so I need to figure out how to extend it!!

Thank you VERY much!!

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

What keeps the gaff boom from falling toward the rear of the boat? Does the halyard to raise the gaff boom attach to the gaff boom in the gap in the pocket, and also keep the gaff boom close to the mainmast?
Yes, there is a block on the aft side of the mast, and a line goes through it. The upper end of the line is fastened on the gaff and the lower end is attached on a cleat at the mast foot. It enables to raise the gaff almost vertically but it is still flexible enough to allow the sail to swing around the mast.
I have a snap/clip fitting which snaps around the mainmast, to keep the gaff boom from falling toward the rear of the boat.
This is surprising, as I don't understand how you could easily lower the main sail in an emergency situation... Maybe the previous owner used by mistake a sail-mast hoop as a fitting, because he could not figure how to raise the gaff ? Maybe you should take a picture of your rig to show us...
In a previous post in the sailing area, you mentioned you had the instructions for the S-4 rig? Did you ever scan them? If so, I would be interested.
As nobody required it, I did not scan it yet. I will try my best to do so. Alas, there are no drawings in the instructions showing the top of the mast, they only show the layout at deck level. Even the sail boom was drawn incorrectly compared to the boom I received.
Also, do you know how long is the rope coming out of the top of the jib?
This rope was cut on my jib, and is only about 8 inches long- so I need to figure out how to extend it!!
I'm not near my jib right now, but the jib stay is quite long, as it goes on a block on the mast front and then goes down to reach a cleat on the mast foot where the stay is secured. Double mast length should be plenty enough.

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

Here, I have a picture showing the cleats...

High left (white line) is the jib stay
Lower center (black line) is the boom vang
High right (black line) is the gaff stay

Everything can be quickly unfastened by the front crew should anything turn ugly...

Image
Last edited by Romainpek on Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BPDon

Post by BPDon »

Very interesting!!

I had not considered that the previous owner may have made a modification to the rig!!

I will get my camera and take a picture of the clamp which goes around the mast. I'm not sure I will be able to do it tomorrow, as we are having house guests during the day.

Then-- I will need to figure out how to include a photo in my message when I post.

Also- I don't remember any cleats at the bottom of my mast.

Time to get the S-4 rig out of storage and take another look!!

Thank you!!!

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

Then-- I will need to figure out how to include a photo in my message when I post.
On this board, you cannot upload images alas... but you can open a free account at Photo Bucket, upload your photos there, and put a link to them in your message here (using the IMG codes).

mje
Site Admin
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Location: Southeast Michigan

Post by mje »

Correction:

There is a free photo album on the main foldingkayaks.org site. You can post your photos there and link to them. All you need to do is email me:

Your full name
Preferred email address
preferred account name
preferred password

and I will create an account there for you that other viewers of the site can browse.
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

Oops ! Sorry for the mistake...

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gbellware
lord high faltbotmeister
Posts: 902
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Location: atlanta, georgia

Post by gbellware »

Don,

You are on a journey that is not yet complete. Romainpek shows a pic of a "new" Klepper sail rig (and a very nice one at that!), but your equipment might be very different. Do you have a mast with a hook to receive the eye on the forward end of the boom? If so, you will not have the "modern " mast cleats that Romainpek has. You will, in this case, have a box pulley training the line to cleats on the combing. I have that older style and will post pics when I get back home this weekend, if that would help.

Best,
g

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