Intro

A place to introduce yourself to other members

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Sleepy

Intro

Post by Sleepy »

Hello to everyone. I have one plywood kayak I designed and built for myself back in the year 1981. I have paddeled it off and on since then. I have made several spruce and cedar paddles too. I live on the Puget Sound in Washington State with my wife of 35 years. We are both retired now. She likes kayaking too. I'm having trouble lifting my 65 pound plywood kayak up on top of my Exterra. So I have chosen to build The Victoria Patagonica as it is shown On Tom Yost website. I'm sure it will suite us well for how we paddle now in later life ( code for Arthritis :cry: ). Later I may build one of those neat lightweight Inflatable Hybreds Tom Yost has. I have built several sailboats and kayaks before and I'm handy with my hands. I have just finished last year building a "Paradox" by Matt Layden. I will take my folding kayak ( when I finish one ) with me when I go cruising in it. I don't have a folding kayak now. I hope to see some of you sometime out on the water! :D

Alm

Re: Intro

Post by Alm »

I admire those micro-cruisers by Matt. Ingenious concept. Though, realistically, on this coast with more currents than winds (or if it does blow, it's darn cold, not a Florida) - kayak is an easier way to enjoy a few hours on water.

Sleepy

Re: Intro

Post by Sleepy »

You would be surprised by how pleasant (warm) it is to duck down inside and shut the hatch! cold and rain are nothing.

cline

Re: Intro

Post by cline »

Hello, and welcome to the forum. Image

Christov_Tenn

Re: Intro

Post by Christov_Tenn »

Hello and Welcome!

Alm

Re: Intro

Post by Alm »

"Sleepy", this is what I like about big boats - you can stay there inside when you have to (which option comes with a bunch of strings attached).

This goes beyond a simple "welcome" message, but I think I'll say it again: difficulties of loading a kayak onto high SUV is not enough reason to switch to folder. There are ways to minimize cartoping efforts, but there is no way to minimize assembling/dissembling efforts. Tom Yost boats are easier to assemble than most commercial kayaks of same size, because the design is simpler, with fewer bells and whistles. But don't get an impression that it is a labor similar to unfolding a foldable bicycle or a lawn chair (and there are other chores associated with folders, beside assembling).

Sleepy

Re: Intro

Post by Sleepy »

Alm wrote:There are ways to minimize cartoping efforts, but there is no way to minimize assembling/dissembling efforts.
Trouble lifting onto SUV is one of several reasons for me to get a folder. Flying to San Francisco or Chicago to see grandkids is another. :D And they just look like so much fun. :D And I would like to see "if I could" build it. Being able to travel cross country in the SUV and not have a kayak on top for someone to steal.

cline

Re: Intro

Post by cline »

Sleepy wrote:Trouble lifting onto SUV is one of several reasons for me to get a folder.
Yea, I know all about that one. (3.5 " of lift and 33" tires plus the height of the roof rack and the kayak mounts) :lol:

Image

Alm

Re: Intro

Post by Alm »

cline wrote:Yea, I know all about that one. (3.5 " of lift and 33" tires plus the height of the roof rack and the kayak mounts)
Still, you chose to lift it rather than assemble/dissemble, as I can see on the photo. That was my point - assembling sucks, especially when performed for mere day trip. Traveling is a different story - this is where folder rules.

cline

Re: Intro

Post by cline »

Alm wrote:Still, you chose to lift it rather than assemble/dissemble, as I can see on the photo. That was my point - assembling sucks, especially when performed for mere day trip. Traveling is a different story - this is where folder rules.
My statement was meant as a light hearted comment, but I agree with you that when traveling, the “folder rules.” I also agree with you when you wrote that the “difficulties of loading a kayak onto high SUV is not enough reason to switch to folder.” You’ve got to love what they do for you and the features they offer you; they’re too expensive to do otherwise.

Actually, I usually assemble it on the day of the trip just before I put it up on the Jeep. Sometimes I’ll assemble it the night before and put it on the Jeep the next day. It just depends on different factors. I disassemble it right after I get back. The main reason that I carry it that way is so that it'll dry out some on the way back. When I take it apart, I dry off any pieces that are still wet, crawl in the hull to dry it as best that I can, vacuum it out if there’s a lot of debris inside, and then I stretch out the hull in my recreation room with a couple of ribs propping up the openings to allow any moisture inside that I may have missed to dry.

You’re absolutely right about it being a PITA to assemble/disassemble just for a day trip, but I do it anyway. One reason is because I don’t have a garage to store it in for the next trip, and keeping it assembled in the home would also be a PITA, of a different sort, even though I would have the room for it. When I had my first Klepper, I used to leave it together most of the time for the day trips. Unfortunately, I usually left it in my carport, and even though it was well covered, it definitely shortened the life of my hull. I’ve also found that by assembling/disassembling it as I do, that the pieces go together very well and very quickly because the parts really get “broken in,” and because of the practice that I get doing it. :lol: I can easily assemble it in less than 15 minutes, and, of course, taking it apart is equally fast.

When I go on any long, overnight trips, I always carry it in the bags for reasons that have already been pointed out here, and many other times in this forum.

Alm

Re: Intro

Post by Alm »

cline wrote:...You’ve got to love what they do for you and the features they offer you; they’re too expensive to do otherwise.

...I disassemble it right after I get back. The main reason that I carry it that way is so that it'll dry out some on the way back. When I take it apart, I dry off any pieces that are still wet, crawl in the hull to dry it as best that I can, vacuum it out if there’s a lot of debris inside, and then I stretch out the hull in my recreation room with a couple of ribs propping up the openings to allow any moisture inside that I may have missed to dry.

You’re absolutely right about it being a PITA to assemble/disassemble just for a day trip, but I do it anyway. One reason is because I don’t have a garage to store it in for the next trip...
Oh well, what my folders can do for me locally that my hardshell can't, I wonder.

Yes. Drying/cleaning and maintenance are those "folder-specific" chores (beside assembling) that I mentioned earlier but didn't want to go into details. It doesn't take long (it didn't, to me) to realize that folders are more time-consuming and labor-consuming vessels than hardshells. But, when time is no problem, then no problem.

When situation doesn't allow keeping hardshells, then there is no other choice but folder, it's obvious. With my compact car I can only guess-timate how big is this problem for SUV owners, though, with my less than average height I can tell that this alone wouldn't justify switching to folder for me. Judging by the number of SUVs that I see in launch areas, I'm not the only one who thinks so. There are extension loading bars (that you shove into the cross-wise tube, simple and efficient tool), rollers (to load from rear, works with Jeeps and hatchbacks), "hullavators", and probably other things that I don't know about. Though, most boats here are composite single kayaks, weighing 45-55 lbs, not 65. I don't think there are touring doubles under 70 lbs even in expensive Kevlar version.

cline

Re: Intro

Post by cline »

I agree that time is sometimes a problem. For those occasions, I also have a hard-shell kayak. Let me mention too that putting that big folder, or any kayak for that matter, on top of my Jeep is hard work, even with the “hully rollers” and even though I’m 6’3” tall. I often joke with my wife after a trip that sometimes I wish that it wasn’t so high off the ground. :mrgreen:

Of course, we all have our reasons for liking folders. I like them mainly for their stability in the water, and, should the occasion ever arise, for the opportunity to carry it on trips and other places where carrying a hard shell would not be possible. When I bought my first Klepper in 1965, I lived in an apartment, so having a folder made owning a boat possible.

I have to admit though that the reason I first chose a Klepper came after reading about Dr. Hannes Lindemann’s second voyage across the Atlantic in a Klepper in his book, “Alone at Sea.” After that, I remember thinking that if that boat could hold up to that adventure, then I wanted that boat. I also had “dreams” of sailing it across the Atlantic as well, so I acquired an old parachute and started to make a spinnaker to go with the sailing rig that I purchased with the boat. But, alas; life, marriage, children, excuses, etc. got in the way. :wink:

Alm

Re: Intro

Post by Alm »

cline wrote:Of course, we all have our reasons for liking folders. I like them mainly for their stability in the water,

This has little to do with foldability. Though, most folders are wide boats indeed. Kruger Cruiser isn't foldable, and it is more stable than AEII: http://www.krugercanoes.com/prod03.htm. Not cheap, but the brand is highly reputed. Probably, the best in its class.
...the reason I first chose a Klepper came after reading about Dr. Hannes Lindemann’s second voyage across the Atlantic in a Klepper in his book, “Alone at Sea.” After that, I remember thinking that if that boat could hold up to that adventure, then I wanted that boat.
yeah, yeah, Dr. Lindemann and his Klepper... And there were Egyptians on reed rafts before Lindemann, and Vikings (bigger ships than AEII, though smaller than caravellas of Columbus).
I also had “dreams” of sailing it across the Atlantic as well,
Sleeping deprivation. Much pain and not much honour - many people did this already in small vessels. Though crossing the sea of Cortez via Mid-reef Islands looks realistic to me and probably will be done at some time. I wish I had Kruger Cruiser, but then I would have to drive there one week each way, which is worse than crossing the sea.

cline

Re: Intro

Post by cline »

Alm wrote:
cline wrote:Of course, we all have our reasons for liking folders. I like them mainly for their stability in the water,

This has little to do with foldability.
You’re right in a sense. I’ll speak only to Kleppers since that is what I know. The sponsons in the Kleeper make it more stable than the average boat, at least the average hard-shell of equal width. So, technically, it isn’t the fact that it’s a folder that makes it stable; it’s the sponsons that come with it (and I would imagine that come with most folders as well) that helps to make it stable.
Alm wrote:
cline wrote:...the reason I first chose a Klepper came after reading about Dr. Hannes Lindemann’s second voyage across the Atlantic in a Klepper in his book, “Alone at Sea.” After that, I remember thinking that if that boat could hold up to that adventure, then I wanted that boat.
yeah, yeah, Dr. Lindemann and his Klepper... And there were Egyptians on reed rafts before Lindemann, and Vikings (bigger ships than AEII, though smaller than caravellas of Columbus).
Alm wrote:
cline wrote:I also had “dreams” of sailing it across the Atlantic as well,
Sleeping deprivation. Much pain and not much honour - many people did this already in small vessels. Though crossing the sea of Cortez via Mid-reef Islands looks realistic to me and probably will be done at some time. I wish I had Kruger Cruiser, but then I would have to drive there one week each way, which is worse than crossing the sea.
The tone of your reply surprises me. First off, the reason that I wanted the boat after reading about it in that book was because I felt that if it could handle a trip like that, it could handle anything that I might expose it to. Secondly, my desire to do that at the time had absolutely nothing to do with setting a record, being recognized for having done it, or anything like that. As you said, it was old news. It had to do with a personal desire for a particular adventure, not for any other reason. I’ve always lived my life this way, and because of that I’ve had a life rich with adventure and new opportunities.

My apologies to the originator of this post for going off topic. :mrgreen:

ddeck

Re: Intro

Post by ddeck »

Cline, don't stress it. Alm seems to have a great deal of knowledge, but he is either the most negative person I've met who is posting on a board about hobbies(most people like to talk positive about such things) or he just likes stirring the pot. Being a positive mindset kind of guy myself, I'm thinking it is the stirring that is reality.

Read his posts throughout the forum, they are actually entertaining and there is much to be gained when you read between all of those lines of stirring. Just don't let him talk you out of anything. Reading the posts, the only people that would buy a folder are people who fly off to the faraway places at least once a week.

Alm, please tell me you just do this for fun.

peace

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