Mast & Sails

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John Monroe

Mast & Sails

Post by John Monroe »

Does anyone know how the Balogh mast pieces assemble together without a pin or depress button sticking out that would stop the sail rings from sliding up and down the mast? I guess you could not pin them at all and the mast down hall rope would keep it all tightly together when under sail. And I would guess the mast wall tube thickness is 1/8 inch?

I’m thinking a well shaped batwing sail could be made by nailing 2x4’s to the outside shape of the sail, then laying across wing foil shaped 2x4’s where each sail panel is sewed together. This would make a mold for the airfoil shape. Each cloth panel would then be laid from the edge to the first foil shaped 2x4 and tacked in place, then the next one and so on. The first tryout sail could be made of cheap Tyvek or poly and if proven then good Dacron. Battens would be added at some of the seams. Any problems with this thought?


John
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Alm

Post by Alm »

the mast down hall rope would keep it all tightly together when under sail. And I would guess the mast wall tube thickness is 1/8 inch?
Yes, no pins. About 1/16" - don't have a trammel for precise measurements. Regular measuring tape isn't very accurate, and there exist odd varieties of wall thickness. But not 1/8", for sure. As to the cutting sail - you should better ask at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sailing_canoes/

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Thanks for your quick reply Aim. I didn't dream it would be that thin but maybe I should have. I just measured the wall thickness of my FULBOT outrigger AKA and it is .068, which is just a little bigger then than 1/16". I'll call Folbot and ask what grade of aluminum they use. Maybe aircraft grade.

Perhaps you could tell me how long the smaller piece of aluminum tube that inserts inside the larger tube is. I have made some that inserts 6 inches inside the larger tube and seemed to be ok. For clarification, in the picture below the smaller tube coming out of the larger tube is 6 inches long.

John in IN
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Alm

Post by Alm »

Attention to details is what makes Balogh different, and your photo has just reminded me this. My only grudge is extreme difficulties of getting any parts from him. He doesn't delegate any of business tasks to anybody, so it's a very small business, and it's often difficult even contacting him.

I can see rivets on your tubes. This is OK for outrigger, but on the mast it's better not to have anything protruding on the exterior surface. This is bad for mast hoops, and rivets also serve as stress raisers. Balogh's inserts are held in place by foam that fills the sections inside. BSD mast and outrigger inserts are 6" on the outside, and I'm pretty sure it is the same length inside the tube. 1/16" walls might seem thin, but consider that BSD tubes have larger OD than Folbot's. BSD outrigger has same OD as Folbot's mast, and BSD mast OD=1.5". So, BSD tubes are stronger even if they have the same walls as Folbot. Also, in both brands the outrigger midsection has additional inserts in the middle, hidden completely inside. One thing done particularly wrong in Folbodt rig is their leeboard - it is not hydrodynamical in shape, dangles a bit, and it is too small even for a single mainsail, not to mention double mast rigs that people use on big kayaks.

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chrstjrn
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Post by chrstjrn »

Alm wrote:Attention to details is what makes Balogh different, and your photo has just reminded me this. My only grudge is extreme difficulties of getting any parts from him. He doesn't delegate any of business tasks to anybody, so it's a very small business, and it's often difficult even contacting him.
I had a really good experience with Mark, in this regard. I splintered my leeboard. I called, he answered, and he got one right in the mail. Boy, did it cost a lot, but the service was great!
Chris T.
Klymit Packraft
In storage in the US:
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind
'64 Klepper T12
Early '90s Old Town Canoe
Previous:
'04 Pakboat Puffin II
'05 Swift (prototype)
'84 Hobie 16.

Alm

Post by Alm »

chrstjrn wrote: I had a really good experience with Mark, in this regard. I splintered my leeboard. I called, he answered, and he got one right in the mail. Boy, did it cost a lot, but the service was great!
I don't think this is typical of him. There were so many examples of the opposite, - both in my experince, and in other people's... Folbot leeboard, btw, costs $150 - but like I said, it's not very effective. Mark told me once, how much is his leeboard if purchased separately, but I forgot. About $280, I think.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

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Drawings of foil NACA shapes are hard to find on the net without lofting your own. I believe these are accurate. I have built the 0009 for my leeboard and am working on the 0012 for my rudder. I put a strip of rub glass on the front and rear of the leeboard but I think I will just glass the front of the rudder because the rear glassing was very hard to do because of the tiny radius the glass had to bend around causing the glass to want to lift up.

Hope this helps anyone wanting to make their own.

John

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

I glassed a keel for a sail boat model, and I wrapped the whole thing, front, back and sides in fiber glass.

It went great and there was no small turn radius problem.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Hi,

You should post a picture of your model. The radius I glassed around and had problems with was about 1/16" using a heavy fiberglass tape, heavier then the 6 oz. glass I use for glassing my kayaks. Glassing the front edge of the leeboard went well and was a larger 3/8" radius in size. The rudder in the picture is what I am working on now but the trailing back edge won't be glassed. If I had 4 oz. glass I might have tried it.

John


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Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

Sure, the fiber glass I used was very light... :? but maybe a light covering is stronger than nothing....

John Monroe

Looking for Cleat.

Post by John Monroe »

Where can I buy this small cleat to use as in the picture on my aka to ama's to insure they don't come apart. Thanks

John

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Alm

Post by Alm »

here in Vancouver BC I'm buying these things mostly in Steveston Marine. Always compare prices with West Marine, right across from the first store, and WM always has it higher. Though, WM almost always does have in stock everything I need and even more than I need - or they can order, while Steveston Marine sometimes doesn't have and doesn't know when they will have it. Good kayaking store sometimes carries these cleats too. And there is a whole bunch of on-line sail supply stores, if you know what you need and don't have to see it in flesh.

Btw, your photo shows older version - now Balogh is using cleats with rounded top, TAD lower profile. New one costs about $10, I think.

John Monroe

Cleats

Post by John Monroe »

Thanks for your Information.

I found two choices for cleats that are virtually the same. These look just like the one in the picture as far as I can tell. SD-002030 Nylon Junior Clamcleat with fairlead unit price $3.92. I ended up ordering two cleats from Duckworks for a total price of $14.84 including shipping. The only downside is they are on vacation from Jan. 13 to Feb. 26 but I can wait.

I could have ordered from Go2Marine and the total price including shipping was $26.95. The shipping was more expensive plus they added small parts charges also.

John

Alm

Post by Alm »

Yes, I think this is Junior Cleat on your photo. It is very similar to the fancy one with rounded top, but Junior has more angular shape and a fraction of inch taller, less convenient when packing for airline - this is one difference.

Another difference is that new cleats use a double line: one end is tied in the hole under the cleat, then line goes to the amas loop and back into the cleat. So you have a double line between the cleat and ama, - better tension, more reliable. Here they are from West Marine, $5.50 or $9, don't remember if it's "medium" or "small" (the 1st one in the bottom row, see the notch under the cleat): Image
I have a lot of complaints on Balogh's business practice, but one thing I can tell is that he is constantly tweaking with his equipment, improving whenever possible.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Here is the picture of the cams I ordered. The Jr SD002030. I'm now making a tiller out of two ski poles I don't use anymore. I read of another guy doing this so I thought I would try it.

John

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