Mast & Sails

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Alm

Post by Alm »

Yep.. looks like it doesn't have a hole underneath, to tie a double line.

Ski poles - sure... With a long distance from the rudder yoke you'll have to make it of 2 poles, and this can be challenging. Darn modern poles are tapered, difficult to make a simple joint with a tube etc, if you want to be able to take it apart. Pre-historical poles with constant diameter are better. You'll have to make a yoke extention, too - stock yoke is too short for tiller.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

The ski poles I have are cheap, are all the same diameter from top to bottom and made of polyester and glass. By sanding the diameter down slightly I can drive a 4-inch piece of copper tubing tightly on it for a joint sleeve. Before I can cut and fit the second ski pole I need to receive my Ronstan urethane universal joint that I ordered over two months ago. It’s been back ordered for that long but I’m getting aggravated. I ask them via e-mail to either ship it or credit my account so I can order it from someplace else, but haven’t gotten an answer back from almost a week ago. I may have to call them. I could make my own simple universal joint for the tiller but would rather have the Ronstan. In the mean time I can start thinking about making the tarp sail.

John

Alm

Post by Alm »

Oh, I decided to go without a universal joint. The tiller thus always remains on one side, controlled by pullling it back or forth (in my case it's left side, but can be right as well). You quickly get used to it. With a universal joint you probably can take it apart at the joint, or fold both poles together for storage etc. Without this joint, I had to make a tubular joint removable.

My situation is perhaps different from yours - both boats that I used this "stick" on, were single kayaks with relatively short distance from my seat to the rudder yoke. In a double kayak with seat located in the middle this might not work - the "stick" becomes too long.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Alex I think I will go ahead and start making my tiller without the ordered universal joint similar to yours. If the joint does come I'll then decide if I want to use it. My smaller hardshell kayak I’m setting up for sailing is only 12 feet long and the tiller will be some where between 5 1/2 and 6 feet long. It will be offset on the left side as yours is so I can operate the sail/sails with my right hand.

John

John Monroe

Making a Sale

Post by John Monroe »

I'm getting closer to making a sail somewhat like the Balogh sail, but out of white poly tarp. I think there are three battens in this sail but I'm not sure if there is a fourth at the bottom. Does anyone know? There are different ways of making the belly (camber) in a sail besides cutting it in the curvature of panel edges. One way is to cut a curve in the luff and foot and the other is to add darts. I will try the luff and foot curvature to start with. If I knew roughly the camber depth I can cut and recut until I get something close.

Thanks for any ideas,
John

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Alm

Re: Making a Sale

Post by Alm »

John Monroe wrote:I'm getting closer to making a sail somewhat like the Balogh sail, but out of white poly tarp. I think there are three battens in this sail but I'm not sure if there is a fourth at the bottom. Does anyone know?
On my 32 sf BSD there are 4 battens. 3 you marked on the photo, and 4th is a diagonal batten at the bottom, ending in the middle of the corner where the control line is tied. The horizontal line above this one is just a seam, and the very bottom of the sail along the aluminum "boom"is seam (hem) again. Note, that some of those seams and battens have also reefing zippers and buckles - this you may or may not do on your tarp. It is possible to copy Balogh design. That's why he is so secretive sometimes. And there is a big incentive for DIY people, as BSD is so expensive. But it's made so accurately and with so many details, that your copy will never be same good as the original (unless you're in sail-making yourself).

Can't tell about camber. Don't know how to measure. it's not deep. Looks flat when I put it on the floor, but there is a camber, of course.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Hi Alex,

I appreciate all of your help. My wife tells me to just buy a Balogh sail but this is more fun. If I can come up with something decent I will put it out on the net for others to build.

10% of the luff to leach would give me 5 inches of depth but that may be too much. I am making a 1/8th scale model sail out of Tyvex house wrap (those big shipping envelopes you can’t tear) you can get in the US post office’s,,,,, and with battens to see what the characteristics are. I can check to scale the chamber belly. On the model I am putting the equivalent of 2 inches rounding on the luff and foot but that may be too much. The guy that sells white poly kits looked at the pictures of Balogh sails and thought I should only round the foot and luff 1 inch that would make a flatter sail. After you telling me how flat your sail looks I think that may be about right. But I will start with 2 inches on the scaled down test model.

The reason I though the bottom of the sail may not have an angular batten is since some of the Balogh sails have a zipper reefing and it would seem the bottom batten would have to be taken out each time you reefed because it looked as if the batten was left in that it would bind as you dropped the sail. But I couldn’t think that through very well. Do you have the zipper reefing? Maybe the model will give me a clearer picture. Thanks so much.

John

Alm

Post by Alm »

Yes, I have zippers. One on the 2nd batten from the top, then double zipper on the next batten, and again single zipper on the seam under this batten. There are also buckles in addition to zippers, tp fix the zippered folds, releave stress on zippers, and prevent them from opening. You might go with buckles only, I guess. These1+2+1 zippers allow 3 diffrent reefing sizes, it is hard to explain the exact layout, I only can say that the lowest batten doesn't need to be taken out (or any other batten). In addition, the battens on BSD are adjustable - they can be forcefully tightened into a certain camber if needed, but I almost never adjust them.

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Thanks for all your great information Alex. As soon as it warms up some I'll lay out the poly in the garage and start this sail. I'll post how it is coming along.

I am going to make it flatter then I originally was going to. On my 17 inch scaled sail I had a pucker between the two middle battens. So I change from a 2 inch (by scale) to 1 inch rounding of the luff and raised the center of the rounding from 1/3 up the sail to the middle and the puck went away. So I will try it this way on the sail itself.

Adjusting the curve of the sail with the battens is interesting.

John

John Monroe

Poly sail finished.

Post by John Monroe »

The poly sail is finished. It took about a week for me to make and included double zig-zag sewing around the outside edges plus the batten pockets. The battens were made of 3/16" strips cut from a 1" pine board. Double-sided carpet tape stuck the sail together before sewing, and then I hammered the tape to get a good adhesion. Some say just the tape is enough and no sewing is needed. I reinforced the corners with some of the thick edges cut from the excess tarp plus white poly tape. Cut from a 12'x16' tarp, I have enough left over to make another sail. I bought my poly sail kit from http://hometown.aol.com/polysail/ for $64 plus shipping. I will have to wait until spring to try it out. I ended up rounding the luff and foot 1/1/2 inches.

Thanks all for the earlier sewing machine help.

John

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Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

This sure is a very nice sail ! Please update us after you try it...

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

It will be late March or April before it is warm enough to try it out and I will post the results. Next I want to build a take-a-part aluminum mast like Balogh's that will be 1 1/2" x 13'.

John

Alm

Post by Alm »

Double-sided carpet tape stuck the sail together before sewing, and then I hammered the tape to get a good adhesion. Some say just the tape is enough and no sewing is needed.
John, were you able to find outdoor carpet tape? I'm modifying my Pacific Action sail for Kahuna (don't want to take the whole Balogh rig to the next trip), and this includes making shorter fiberglass spars (V-shaped mast), and folding the top of the sail by 8" (sail cloth looks like light-grade Dacron, which is Polyesther). Modification has to be reversible, not permanent - I just don't want to buy Spirit sail now, which is perhaps the best commercial downwind sail for Kahuna. So, I need to fix that folded cloth somehow - without glueing or sewing. I could only find Indoor carpet tape in Home Depot. It might work, though. Even $1 transparent Scotch tape resists water spray very well, though it's not too strong, and the film degrades in the sun after a season.

John Monroe

Tape

Post by John Monroe »

Alex The guy that sells the sail kits did all kinds of test with different tapes and found that Duck Brand double-sided Indoor/Outdoor tape worked the best. The size is 1.41 in .42 ft. If you can’t find it anyplace else you can get it here.

http://members.aol.com/polysail/HTML/products.htm

Or you can go to http://www.duckproducts.com

To make it stick even better as I read in an article for making poly sails, hammer the tape with a mallet. I had a small roller that I first rolled it with then hammered it. Then I also sewed it to make it more permanent. But on your sail you may not want to make it stick too good since you may want to restore it back the way it was. You might want to test a small piece of tape to be sure you can get the sail untaped. This is sticky stuff.

John

John Monroe

Post by John Monroe »

Hi,

I have ordered the aluminum tubing for my Balogh style stackable mast. I am trying to decide how to cut it and how many pieces to make it into. My mast will be 13 feet high, but lets say it is 12 feet and cut into 4, three-foot sections. Does the protruding inner tube extending out 1 1/2 feet seem about right? That would butt it into the inner tubing of the next section. If anyone has a Balogh mast can you tell me what it's like?

Thank you,
John

Please excuse the spelling.
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