Older Klepper Sail Rig Questions

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Christov_Tenn

Older Klepper Sail Rig Questions

Post by Christov_Tenn »

My first question has to do with the clips shown in the photo below. They are used to fasten lines left and right of the mast to D-Rings on the deck thus holding the mast in place in its step and bracket. They are broken. Where can I get more of them cheaply?

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Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

Dude, go down to your nearest Marine West and buy some ss carabiners (the expensive alternative) or go down to your nearest Waly World and get some cheap aluminium ones in the camping section. The aluminium ones will hold up fine, but I like the reassurance and looks of the ss ones.

-Andreas

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krudave
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Post by krudave »

West Marine will also have brass clones of those, for maybe 3-5 bucks each. Snap swivels will also work. Metals are expensive these days.

WallyWorld or BoatersWorld might beat WM, if you want to spend some gas money in lieu of just doing the deed at WM.

Definitely NOT a friend of WM, here; my fiancee earns a living at a better marine store than WM, but which only has outlets in 7 locations, all on the west coast, north of Eureka, CA. Cheaper prices and better quality goods than WM. I avoid WM, if at all possible.
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.

Christov_Tenn

Post by Christov_Tenn »

Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to try to find clones - $3-5.00 is under my wife's spend-scolding radar (I think), and carabiners - why didn't I think of carabiners? as a quick fix.

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sasha
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Post by sasha »

Christov_Tenn wrote:Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to try to find clones - $3-5.00 is under my wife's spend-scolding radar (I think), and carabiners - why didn't I think of carabiners? as a quick fix.
SS or aluminum carabiners are the way to go. They are great and useful in so many ways around. I have replaced the Klepper stock with ss and never looked back.

Alm

Post by Alm »

The problem with those spring-loaded gadgets and aluminum is that it corrodes and gets stuck in whatever position it was. You open it (or something else does) and it stays open - doesn't lock up by itself. Salt is also to blaim, but corrosion definitely takes place. Brass gets corroded even faster, I think. Gets covered with greenish coating - some find it beautiful, revealing venerable age of the thing, etc etc, but this is just a corrosion. Besides, brass tend to cost more. Get stainless ones.

PS: don't know the size of those, but regular hardware and automotive stores often have cheap alternatives to West Marine metal hardware. Here in Canada it's "Canadian Tire" (and Home Depot, of course). Usually in the aisle with ropes and chains. Make sure it is SS, and not nickel-plated - those "civilian" stores have both kinds.

Christov_Tenn

Post by Christov_Tenn »

Today I set up the RZ96 with the sail rig for the first time. Went to the hardware store and got some small carabiners. They didn't have shower curtain rings, so I drove to KMart, which only had decorative metal shower curtain hooks of the sort that do not a closed ring make. The dollar store in that shopping center, however, did have some. $1.10, including tax.
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Early last year, I bought a couple of over sized flotation bags for the RZ96 on Ebay because the Zoelzers seemed kind of small for the boat. This was also the first time I got around to trying them out. You could float a small bass boat with these bags. If not fully inflated, the fill up the space pretty well, but in the bow they overlap the mast bracket and step.
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They're bigger than I thought they would be. If you're interested in them, let me know.

I used a pair of wire-snips to remove the broken fasteners from the shrouds, and clipped on the new carabiners, then cut off the old thin line from the front of the sail and attached three new shower curtain rings. They fit fine, and were of sufficiently large diameter to encircle the mast without binding.

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The mast has a squared-off end that fit loosely into the round socket in the mast step.
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The gaff is somewhat awkward. I had a hard time getting it to remain upright, and I noticed that, undoubtedly because the mast is not designed to fit the mast-step, it has a tendency to twist around a bit.
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But I was eventually able to get it sorted out, and sailed a bit in my yard. You know, just sitting in the boat on the grass and feeling the breeze in the sail to get an idea of what that felt like before going out on the water. Yeah, I'm a lawn-sailor.

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The line I pull to hoist, if that is the word I want, the sail is too short to drop the sail completely from the rear seating position without letting it go completely. That could easily be a problem.

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Also, the absence of cleats on the leeboard thwart or anywhere on the mast is going to be a problem, too. The metal collars and sockets on the mast, gaff, and boom are all a little loose. Dunno whether that will be a problem or not.

Also, there's this loop at the bottom of the sail. Any idea what it's for?
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Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

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There's usually a line as a luff cringle. You will probably need to have this fastened to keep the loop at the opposite end of the boom from popping off. Normally a cleat will be just below the fork for this purpose, but if you're trying to stay below H's kayak expense radar, you can tye it off with a lark's head over the fork. No foil control, but not to worry, you'll have other worries for a while.

I'm not positive, but it looks to me like you might have switched your gaff and boom. The reason I say this is because the photo of your tack end of your boom looks like the throat of my gaff, and you don't seem to have any throat on your gaff. :?

You'll definitely want to have some sort of cleats to begin with. If you aren't sailing with a jib you can save yourself a little here, but you'll definitely want to cleat your halyards. Eventually you'll even want to cleat your main sheet, but fortunately Kleppers don't generate so much force in their sails that you can't hand hold the sheet for a while.

To keep your mast from twisting, you might be able to glue some shims in the step. It looks to me like you're putting a square peg into a round hole. :wink:

-Andreas

Christov_Tenn

Post by Christov_Tenn »

Thanks for the tip about the loop. I did have trouble getting the loop on the end of the boom to remain in place.

The arrangement of gaff and boom is pretty much just as the seller sent it. I noticed that the gaff doesn't have any, I think it's called, gooseneck, and doesn't have a fork. From a diagram in one of your photo albums, it appears that the fork on the boom is actually the fork that ought to be on the gaff.

The gaff seems to be of slightly smaller diameter and lighter in weight than the boom, but I may be wrong about that.

The gaff doesn't seem to have much leverage, if that's the word I want, when pulled up to the mast, and maybe a fork arrangement would help there?

If I put a cleat on the mast below the fork, will it not prevent the sail/boom/gaff from sliding all the way down when the sail is completely down, or does that not make any difference?

I know a lot of my questions are pretty dumb, but remember that I'm completely new to this, and my only prior sailing experience has been in a dinghy with another kid who knew how to sail, but we immediately broke the mast at Hurricane Gulch in Los Angeles Harbor, a muddy experience with my dad in a lateen rigged styrofoam Kool Cigarettes' Snark on a slough near the Union Oil refinery in Harbor City, and that time my old dad nearly collided with a supertanker near the breakwater in Los Angeles Harbor in his ill-fated Cal-21 fiberglass sailboat. And the Round-Up umbrella.

Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

The more I think about it, the more I'm sure you've got some things turned around/missing.
You need a fork at the tack end of your boom so you can pull it off to roll reef your sail, -unless you have reef points. This is also why it won't matter if you have a horn cleat for your luff cringle.

Also, there's usually a collar on Klepper gaffs that has a hinged aluminium loop (I'll get pics today :roll: ) to allow it to come on and off the mast. Only it likes to snap off by itself, so I've reinforced mine with Velcro. Without this, it will be very difficult to have an efficient foil in your sail shape.

As for your gaff throat; it's usually a hook shaped thing that allows it to be unhooked from the mast for stowing.

I just remembered I have some horn cleats laying about here at the Von Klepper Villa. I'll send them to you, but you'll have to PM your address, I seemed to have already recycled the box you sent me... :oops:

Don't worry about dumb questions, Klepper's customer service is a bit on the lower end of the scale since the early 60's when they published their own complete 60 pg. sailing manual, -but mine is in German. :roll: And Klepper's rigs have a few class idiosyncracies that don't necessarily translate straight from sail rig to sail rig.

-Andreas

Christov_Tenn

Post by Christov_Tenn »

In addition to the sage advice I've received here, I've exchanged some emails with Ralph Hoehn, who strongly urged me not to attach the shrouds to the D-rings forward the cockpit. Today's winds were light, and we didn't have anywhere else to attach them. So we clipped the shrouds to the D-rings, and did not come to grief.

I stupidly forgot the battens on the floor of the boat-shed when I loaded everything in the car this afternoon, so wasn't able to make the most of the light and shifty winds on the lake.

My friend Mike added a jam or clam cleat (not sure what it's called, really) on the mast below the boom. It worked perfectly.
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Additionally drilled a hole through to the mast-most end of the gaff, and tied it off to the mast, thus:
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Although the winds were light and shifty, I was able to turn the boat completely around and sail back the way I came without paddling one time, and had to paddle, a couple of times. Most of the afternoon, the boat sailed so slowly I could have gone to sleep. I should have worn sunglasses, but didn't. That's why I'm squinting in most of the photos from today's sailing lesson.
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I learned to pay attention to the telltale, and to find 45 degrees to the wind, on those rare occasions when it blew strong enough matter.

The RZ has a lot of room when sailed solo from the aft seat. I may purchase a canoe paddle for sailing.

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

Nice picture... but your mast seems a bit bendy at the joint in the middle.

Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

I was looking at that too, -actually it seems to be in the middle of the gaff joint. :? Is the joint a bit loose? Otherwise it seems you are on a nice start. There's nothing quite like your boat surging forward when you first hoist your sail. :D

Romainpek

Post by Romainpek »

In fact, both the mast AND the gaff bend at their middle joint...

Christov_Tenn

Post by Christov_Tenn »

Yep, the joints are a little loose. The mast appears to have exaggerated bend and rake in part because it is a loose-fitting square peg in a round socket, and I'm holding the sheet in too tight. Also, there's no forestay, I believe it's called, to provide any forward tension on the mast.

The winds were so light yesterday, there wasn't much surging going on. Maybe a jib would help things a little bit.

About the leeboards, that was as far forward as we could get the thwart, although I've been told they should be farther forward with a jib.

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