Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

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martinb

Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by martinb »

I plan to build a sail rig for an old Nautiraid II 520 and I need some advice on how to mount onto the cockpit coaming. Does anyone have photos of sail rig mountings in a Nautiraid?

I am adapting a windsurfer sail and mast to make the sail rig and using the top sections of two other windsurfer masts to make outriggers. High carbon windsurfer masts can be found very cheaply on ebay.

Photos of the old Nautiraid frame here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21293915@N ... 3501615481

Thanks
Martin

Romainpek

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by Romainpek »

Somebody else had the same need, but wrote a post in the wrong section. viewtopic.php?f=36&t=3200 . Maybe you should contact him.

Alm

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by Alm »

Re: outrigger clamps onto the cockpit coaming. The link above shows 1/4" J-bolt used on Folbots. It's available in hardware stores, Home Depot or other, don't remember. Specialized suppliers like McMaster must have it. Wing-nut (Folbot calls it "star-knob") has 1/4" thread, you may get 1/4" wing-nut at HD again, though Folbot's knob with plastic head is more convenient for frequent screwing/unscrewing. If it stays there for long time - any wing-nut or a regular nut will do. Just make sure all the hardware is stainless.

But... Folbot J-bolts are designed for aluminum coaming (they call it "washboards"). It's not the best choice for wood or composite coaming. Not only it will try and work the hole bigger, but the very design is poor - round tube on the coaming, with a single J-bolt through - a lot of play, which affects the performance and reliability. OTH, if you want it cheap, this is the easiest way to go.

The best clamp system that I've seen for coaming of any material is BSD (Balogh). It uses a pair of small carriage bolts permanently sitting in the coaming (crosswise), and long vertical bolt with wide lip (in lieu of a J-bolt), going through the outrigger crossbar. The link above says that BSD bolt doesn't have a lip - not correct, there is a good, big, flat lip made out of stainless plate, welded to the bolt. There is also a plastic clamp holding the crossbar to the coaming ("lip-bolt" goes through that clamp). Don't know the cost of a pair of clamps with lip-bolts and knobs - shouldn't be more than $100, though you might have to make the inner diameter in the plastic clamp smaller (plastic clamp is made for 1.3/8" crossbar, IIRC).

You could use Folbot sailing outrigger with amas-pontoons and make some leeboard (Folbot leeboard won't work, too small). Other than outrigger, I would stay away from Folbot sail rig parts. Their sail rig hasn't been same success as their boats, unfortunately. Sub-standard design, waste of good materials.

Sail out of windsurf... Donno... Thought about it long time ago, and decided not to. Too much DIY pain, mast not straight, sail not reefable... Sail of that size without reef points is scary. Somebody either here or on the Folbot forum tried windsurf sail on Folbot GII, with Folbot outrigger.

martinb

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by martinb »

Thanks for that but I don't think that the Nautiraid coaming is as structural as the Klepper and mine certainly does not seem strong enough to bolt onto. I like the idea of replacing one of the central ribs with another with a mast collar and cup.

Batwing mention the requirement for a special Nautiraid mounting for their rig - I was hoping someone may have a photo of it?

Alm

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by Alm »

martinb wrote:Thanks for that but I don't think that the Nautiraid coaming is as structural as the Klepper and mine certainly does not seem strong enough to bolt onto.
Unlike Folbot design, BSD clamps on Klepper/Longhaul wooden cockpits are not bolted to the coaming with a single 1/4" bolt. 2 carriage screws (#10 I think) are bolted crosswise, with lock nuts on the inside of the coaming. The lip at the lower end of the long bolt has 2 notches for those 2 bolts, so the lip is embracing the coaming and #10 bolts from below on the outside. Then there is a plastic clamp on the top of the coaming, and the long bolt goes through the plastic clamp and crossbar tube, and is held with the wing-nut on the top of plastic clamp. So, there is upward pressure from the wide lip to the coaming, and downward pressure from wide plastic clamp to the coaming. There is no upward pressure from the lip to the #10 bolts - they merely keep the lip from sliding lengthwise along the coaming. I have a diagram if you need. No photos - have sold all this with the boat.
I like the idea of replacing one of the central ribs with another with a mast collar and cup.
Cup (mast step?) is a separate thing and is needed anyway. Mast collar on the rib - in order to make work as a real mast partner, it has to be plastic, tight around the mast, and immobilized on the rib or on the outrigger crossbar. Klepper/Longhaul standard mast collar is a loose aluminum hole, and this is bad for mast. Mast/crossbar coupling (even when this is a tight collar holding the mast to the crossbar and/or to the rib) does not eliminate the need to fix the crossbar at the sides of boat.
Batwing mention the requirement for a special Nautiraid mounting for their rig - I was hoping someone may have a photo of it
Email them and ask for diagram or photo. You have never tried their product on Nautiraid and have natural worries - a valid reason to ask for pictures.

You may also try attaching the crossbar to wooden platforms sitting on the deck stringer, tied to perimeter D-rings, - if there is enough deck width for 3" wide platform. Tony Niilus did this on FC K1, and I tried it on FC Kahuna and K1. His website no longer works after Yahoo closed free Geocities hosting. I saved Tony's photos and will probably post them on my site later (as long as free Google hosting works). Good design, adaptable to any folder.

Alternatively, (again, this requires loops or D-rings), you may try what FC did in their new upwind sailrig http://library.feathercraft.com/docs/sa ... seeker.pdf - see tube in black loops on page 13 and 14. But I don't like this design - kinda shaky.

martinb

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by martinb »

Great, the photos in the Feathercraft instructions were just what I was after. I like their system of mounting down onto 'gunwhale support bars' although their amas do not look balanced somehow.

I agree that the sail must be able to be reefed, so intend to convert to slab reefing and a halyard rather than the standard windsurf mast-in-sail method. I will post my progress here.

Alm

Re: Sail rig mounting for Nautiraid

Post by Alm »

martinb wrote:... Feathercraft instructions were just what I was after. I like their system of mounting down onto 'gunwhale support bars' although their amas do not look balanced somehow.
FC amas are ... well... unusual. They have some water ballast inside (Folbot or BSD amas have only air). They also have crossbar going through the ama, so each ama can rotate completely around the crossbar and sometimes does this while under way (i.e. ama's tail facing forward). From my point of view, the biggest problem is dealing with heavy amas when landing or launching. Correction: Ignore the latter. Manual says - 1 cup of water, this isn't heavy.

Check other FC sail rig instructions - there are 3 upwind rig files on their site (left menu): http://feathercraft.com/sailrigs/windseeker.php - all similar, but some photos are better than others. BSD clamps for Nautiraid are, I'm sure, much better. FC system poses too many questions and doubts to me. If you'll decide to buy any separate parts from FC, then it it's better to order BSD clamps specifically designed for Nautiraid, 'cause FC parts are expensive.

The other system that I mentioned - Tony's - also uses 'gunwale support bar', only it's a flat plywood platform rather than round bar - more stable, less rotation and with foam underneath there is less wear on the deck. Tony's system requires aluminum straps across the deck (in case of a double kayak it means - across the cockpit). Here is how it looks on my Kahuna with sail aft of the cockpit:
http://2625400760187644371-a-1802744773 ... 0/dawn.jpg. Sorry, it's dark (early morning). I have pictures of Tony's system in better quality, but they are not posted so I can't link them to the forum, can only email. Note that FC system also requires straps across the deck, only it's elastic scuba tank belt. This elastic belt and round support bars make me think that FC system is not quite efficient and reliable - but this is just my thinking, I never tried FC system.

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