Sailing Deck

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DLee
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Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

Last year I discovered that sailing the AII was a little simpler when I got out of the seat and onto my knees in the cockpit of the boat. Raising my torso this way allowed me to lean very easily over the gunnel to counter the lean of the sail and easily handle stronger winds. I put cushions down on the deck (the square throwable type IV cushions...) but I was still banging my knees and shins on the ribs and it just wasn't completely comfortable.

Well, we had a nice day on Sunday so I went out and set up the AII frame and stared at it for about an hour trying to figure out how to add a mizzen... when I had some ideas I went to the shed and pulled out a sheet of marine ply I had left over from another project and started thinking about cutting it up to hold my mizzen mast. Well, low and behold inspiration struck and I decided to make a sailing deck instead. The board was just a little short on length but I did the best I could. Once cut, I tried it out and quickly realized the 1/4 inch board needed support between the ribs. Back in the shed I found some foam insulation from yet another project and started hacking away on it with a coping saw. The results are below.

I still need to figure out a good system to hold it all down - for now straps will do the job - just to make sure it's a viable item to finalize.

Image Image Image Image
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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

idc
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by idc »

Looks like an interesting idea. Will be nice to hear how it works in use. Will you still be able to bail effectively if water gets in?
all the best,
Ian

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

I think an inadvertent bonus to using the foam is that it not only adds flotation but also fills what is always a difficult area to bail. Let's face it, when you capsize sailing there is no such thing as taking on a little water. The boat fills to the rim. The more space that I can fill with gear and flotation bags the better. So if anything, I think the sailing deck will make bailing a little easier. The forward most portion of the cockpit is still open down to the hull, so if I decide to put a portable bilge pump in (which I'm thinking about) that is the area in which it would do most of it's work. The area behind the sailing deck could be it's home as well as I usually store gear in that forward area. Gear = a dry bag full of goodies and a collapsable canvas bucket which is used for bailing - when not bailing the bucket is storage space for the anchor and 100' of line. The folding bucket is one of the best purchases I've made for the kayak.

A full report on the sailing deck is definitely in order as soon as I can try it out.

Is there any interest in having a sailing get together - launching in Norwalk when the weather improves? Or, do we all have dry suits? I'm ready.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

kenton

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by kenton »

Ah, so necessity really IS the mother of invention. Clever solution.

Not sure it would be a real problem, but it appears the marine ply would likely contact and wear against the finish where the decking intersects the Ribs during flexion. Do you have an idea for a buffer at the contact points (something that might act as a bushing, perhaps?). I bring this up for constructive purposes - not to be critical.

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DoiNomazi
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DoiNomazi »

Interesting idea. When will you test it on water?
Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

Kenton, great thought, hadn't thought of that. Probably lining the grooves on the sailing board with felt or something will help reduce chaffing. But the biggest aid will be reducing movement of the board through some kind of mounting... yet to be determined. Thanks for the comment, that's helpful.

Doi, soon I hope. I live in a little lake community at the top of Westchester Co. so I'll try it out here first and then try the open water of LI Sound at Norwalk harbor and maybe sail out to the islands. With a fantastic amount of luck maybe this weekend or next week... but I should really seal the plywood before heading out - to protect my dry suit and keep sanding simpler... so maybe a little while longer before testing.

I'm excited though.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

Well I finally had a chance to try the sailing board out the other day and it was great. I actually took the boat out twice and am pretty happy with the results. The first day out I just sailed with the jib and then the main. I am on a small lake and it's very gusty. One moment there is nothing, the next it's howling. It's a good testing ground.

On the first day I quickly discovered one shortcoming of the new sailing arrangement - I needed a tiller extension. The most comfortable place to sit is right in the middle of the cockpit. This allowed easy use of the control board and the boat seemed to like that weight distribution. But, I couldn't steer! The hand tiller was too far back and the rudder peddles too far forward. The next day I came up with a good and simple solution. I found a 5/16" dowel in the basement and it fit perfectly into the square opening on the end of the hand tiller. So I shoved the dowel in until it seated in the bend of the tiller and then gave myself about 1.5" sticking out the end, cut it off and drilled a hole through the end of the dowel. Then I took the remaining 3.5' of the dowel and drilled two holes in the end of it. I put a figure 8 knot in the end of an 1/8" line and threaded it down through the dowel end sticking out of the tiller handle. I then threaded the line down through the long dowel and then back up again through the second hole and put a rolling hitch over the dowel which holds the line tight. So I ended up with about a meter long tiller handle which can be handled easily from the middle of the boat. I did connect another length of line to the forward end of the dowel which can be tied loosely to the boat - this allows me to retrieve the dowel if I should drop it. If it wasn't tied forward it would swing back and drag behind the hand tiller.

Anyway, the sailing deck was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to the water warming up so I can really try it out. I did wear my dry suit out for the two sails as the water is still very cold here in NY. The sailing deck also makes if pretty easy to stand in the boat. It's still a bit hard on the knees though and I used a Type IV pfd to kneel on most of the time. Sitting on my knees I could lean pretty far over the gunnel, the forward hand out over the sponson, and the trailing hand holding the tiller. I had a couple of pretty good leans and was able to counter them very nicely. I need to get out on some open water now and really give her a go in a steady wind.

Here is a shot of the sailing deck - by the way, sailed the full rig the second time out with the tiller extension - jib and main - GREAT! Note that I could shove the Long Haul comfort seat under the control board when not in use.

Image

Ready to go home on the pseudo beach cart...

Image
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

I've made some pictures with tape measure if anyone is interested in making a sailing deck like this one. The fit of mine is actually pretty good and although I was originally a little concerned with scuffing where the deck meets the ribs, I haven't seen any evidence.

As seen in the earlier pictures, my deck begins at rib #3 and ends a little before rib #6. If I'd had a longer piece of wood I probably would have made the deck reach back to rib #6... but I didn't. As it turns out, this seems to be about the perfect length and I can place my electric pump on the boats deck forward of rib #6 instead of back between #6 & #7 where I like to store gear. So the 'shorter' length was a little fortuitous for my purposes. Beginning the deck at rib #3 allows the rudder peddles to be mounted in the normal fashion just ahead of rib #3. This way you can steer with the peddles from a seated position amidships, or from the tiller with extension from anywhere else in the boat. I've often used the steering peddles by hand when up forward making adjustments to sail rigging while underway.

When I made these pictures with measurements I made them in reverse of what I had intended. So instead of looking at the board from rear to forward, the angle of view is forward to rear. The board tapers out gradually from rib #3 to it's widest point at rib #5 where it tapers back in pretty quickly.

If you make a rough cut rectangle on your board a little bigger than these dimensions you will be able to fit it in place resting on the edges of the ribs. This will give you the cut-out lines for the ribs. Next cut the rib slots so it lays nicely on top of the ribs. Once you have it resting on the ribs you can decide on the taper you want it to have. I think mine follows the outer stringers pretty closely. The stringers ride higher than the boats deck so you will need to taper the edges of the foam (or whatever you use) for a nice fit.

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Sailing deck, looking forward to rear

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Rib #3 lip

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Rib #4

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Rib #5

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End of board between ribs #5 & #6

Here's a link where you can see all these images larger and some additional lengthwise measurements:
http://www.dennisleephotography.com/Boa ... &k=dsFPL9T

Dennis
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

CanvasClipper

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by CanvasClipper »

Well, got down to it this weekend. Measured, marked and chopped up a big sheet of 9mm thick marine ply and built a deck. I used the full length of the sheet so the deck extends beyond rib #3, almost to the mast step. We will have to see how that works out on the water - may have to trim back to the rib.

Now just need to find some ceiling insulation :?

I have called this deck "The Taylor Swift" because it was quick, looks good and is the best Klepper mod, "like evah!".

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

That's awesome. I'm glad you like it. I do love mine.

I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing about the rudder peddles. Do you have the Klepper tiller? I made a very simple extension by finding just the right size dowel at my hardware store, the dowel should fit into the handle with a nice tight fit. Make the extension by shoving the dowel into one end of the aluminum tiller handle. I cut the dowel with about an inch sticking out the end. I put a hole through the end of this piece of wood and then two holes in end of the remaining section of dowel. The two pieces of dowel were then connected with a short piece of line through the holes which acts as a hinge. Viola! a tiller extension. If this doesn't make any sense let me know and I'll post a picture. Making a nice tight hinge is probably the trickiest part.

I'm not sure how my wife is going to like hearing that I spend the day riding Taylor Swift... ha.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

CanvasClipper

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by CanvasClipper »

DLee wrote:I'd be interested to hear what you end up doing about the rudder peddles ... If this doesn't make any sense let me know and I'll post a picture. Making a nice tight hinge is probably the trickiest part.
Haven't really thought about the rudder yet. I don't have the Klepper tiller so I guess I will have to make one. A photo would be great, thank-you :D
DLee wrote:I'm not sure how my wife is going to like hearing that I spend the day riding Taylor Swift... ha.d
Every time I tell my girl I'm going to the garage to "work on Taylor Swift" I get a raised eyebrow. Not sure the joke will be an enduring one in our house. :)

CanvasClipper

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by CanvasClipper »

Oh, and I'm also thinking of cutting and folding two foam "pool noodles" to use as bench seats on the canvas so we can hike out when the wind is blowing hard.

DLee
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Re: Sailing Deck

Post by DLee »

Check out the Long Haul site and look at the tiller there. It will give you a pretty good idea of the shape - Klepper's is very similar in shape but the handle is made of square aluminum tubing. I like the Long Haul one and think an eye bolt on the end of the handle would accommodate an extension really easily... and you could quickly swap it from side to side with a nice fitting snap shackle.

I will post a picture of mine when I get a chance.

I got my foam at Home Depot. Owen Corning pink 2.5 inch.

I love the idea of the pool noodle usage for the sponson deck. As a matter of fact it's got a few ideas percolating in my mind. The first and simplest is to simply put a nice thick noodle right on top of the coaming.

I've been having a lot of fun sailing with my Kayaksailor, but these conversations have really gotten me inspired to get back out with some new developments for sailing the big rig. Cool. Thanks. Keep the ideas coming. Wish I had a garage to work on mine during this time of year.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

CanvasClipper

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by CanvasClipper »

DLee wrote:I love the idea of the pool noodle usage for the sponson deck. As a matter of fact it's got a few ideas percolating in my mind. The first and simplest is to simply put a nice thick noodle right on top of the coaming.
Am mulling the possibility of making a pool noodle/plywood sandwich: two pool noodle longitudinal halves glued (or strapped) to a piece of 9mm marine ply (say 18x6 inches), then two more half noodles on top. Attached to coaming by straps. The plywood would add stiffness to the seat and spread the load off the canvas and onto the ribs. But would need two each side.

Or I may just park a fat pool noodle on the coaming on each side. Path of least resistance. :lol:

And I want to get the boat on the water before our summer runs away from us ...

sleslie

Re: Sailing Deck

Post by sleslie »

That's a very impressive set-up on a great looking Klepper. Thanks for sharing this interesting idea.

I too have found that when sailing it's uncomfortable to use the tiller which is is directly behind me while sitting in the seat. The standard paddling position isn't really suitable for sailing. On a typical small sailboat you lean out which isn't really possible on a standard Aerius 2, but one ought to be able to lean towards the windward side of the boat.

As a result, I've sailed my A2 only in light wind conditions and seated using the foot pedals.

I also like your cleat board (if that's the proper term for it). I have just a small and inadequate one I inherited from the previous owner. It attaches to the ribs on the bottom of the boat and is barely within reach. If I have the time to devote to improvements, I may reach out to you for drawings.

Last season I spent more time in my Feathercraft since it's a lot easier to get to launch sites.

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