Hobie Outrigger

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DLee
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Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

I finally got the Hobie Sidekick Outrigger system rigged on the T9. I drilled holes in the cross tube that came with the rig and missed the proper sizing by about 1/2". Amazingly, I couldn't get it to fit at the back of the cockpit and was a little disappointed. Then I remembered that I had an old closet bar and the size was close enough to fit the outrigger extensions. I can't push them all the way in because the last 3/4" of the male piece gets just a hair wider and it won't fit. But, it works. So now I have two cross bars for the system.

Drilling straight down through the tube produces a mount that is pretty precise - there's barely a 1/2" of play I would guess. This makes fit very important, it also makes the connection very tight. The cross bar gets real tight and doesn't have any of the loosening or slipping that we get with the slotted boards from Klepper and Long Haul. I think that's a good thing for an outrigger.

So in my haste to try it out I mounted the Kayaksailor and outrigger, donned my dry suit and threw my safety stuff into the boat. As I was doing this I realized I didn't have the rudder system installed. Uhg. With only 1.5 hours to play, total, I couldn't take the time to install the rudder. I'd take the canoe paddle and steer with it.

Down at the lake I tested the outrigger and it works fantastic. Since the water was so cold I didn't push the testing, but I could easily put half to three quarters of my weight out over either side with no problem. This was going to work!

I paddled out with the GP and the stroke was restricted in the rear. Once past the dock I raised the Kayaksailor to full sail and we took off. As soon as the boat got any speed it started to weather cock. I adjusted the lee boards to no affect. Steering with the canoe paddle proved extremely difficult as the boat is just too responsive with all it's rocker. I either turned downwind with the paddle or upwind without. I just could not find a happy medium and believe me, I tried just about everything I could think of.

As the hour mark rolled closer I tried to sail back upwind towards the beach but steering was too difficult and I tried reefing the sail. This worked much better but it soon became obvious that a three leg tack would be needed to get home so I dropped the sail altogether and paddled back to the beach with the canoe paddle, perhaps 300 meters. This actually took more effort and time than I thought - partly because of the wind, partly the paddle. The better scenario would have been to break the outrigger down and paddle in with the GP as normal. But I had forgotten my neoprene hood at home and wasn't going to risk an unnecessary flip trying to take apart the outrigger so far from shore.

continued...
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

Back in the proximity of the beach I decided to take the outriggers off while on the water. Mounted behind my 'comfort seat' it needed to be a one handed operation for each side. It turns out it was a little hard to depress the locking button and pull at the same time in 32˚F with neoprene gloves on. I tried the starboard side first and after several failed attempts felt confident I had the button pushed and gave a solid pull. I checked and saw that I was pulling the aluminum shaft off of it's glued male end. Uhg. I pushed it back on and tried the port side.

The port side came off much easier. I pushed the button, gave a firm pull and the port side outrigger was loose in my hand. It wasn't until I was stowing it that I realized I had completely pulled the tubing off the male end on this side. So, that was a bit of a disappointment.

I think the extreme temperature played a factor in the glue giving up on these components. I did manage to get the starboard side off while out on the water with the port side already removed. It was a little dicey but it worked. I was also able to stow both rods and pontoons between my legs and then go for a quick paddle with the GP afterwards.

In the end I think the system is going to work really well. It kept the T9 up in some very strong blasts of wind with the Kayaksailor fully raised and the jib deployed. There is no doubt I would have been over at least a dozen times without the outrigger. This is a tippy boat with that sail.

A couple drill holes and set screws and a new batch of glue should keep the male connectors in place. A little practice in warmer weather, and maybe a little tool for pushing the button in while pulling the bars will make this system easily mountable out on the water. For $150, I think this is a fantastic value. By the way, the cross bar mounting behind the seat doesn't affect paddling in any way.

Now to make a few fixes and try it again with the rudder - or try it on the Ute. The Ute sailed very well with the KS and canoe paddle steering.

I should also mention that the pontoons sit approximately 6-8 inches above the water when in the 'up' position. Which kept them both off the water much of the time while I was sailing. I haven't tried the lower position yet and I still need to drill the holes for the 'medium' or middle setting.

The pontoons didn't nose dive, submerge or cause any noticeable drag while I played with them. Again, pretty happy.

More to come.

D
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

I wanted to add a couple pictures to help illustrate the clearance on these outriggers.

Image


Image Image
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, nice to see you are all set up for when conditions are right for you, we are of course still frozen in as we will be for the next month or two and a cold June is forecast. Patti at kayaksailor does a lot of "paddle steering", i don,t know if she ever put any tips on their blog, i know David asked her to. Although with your expience i doubt if you need any tip,s You should get photos of your rig in their gallery. You have got some nice clearance under the pontoons, should be good.

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

Wow, that's a great system! And I would be able to adjust for the clearance, depending on my needs. Here in Canada it's a few more dollars at $170, but still a bargain in my opinion.

I went to the Hobie website to try to look for instructions, but no luck. How did you attach the bar to the Klepper? I'm guessing there were no instructions specifically on how to install on folding kayaks...

I'm hoping that this can also be used on my Feathercraft Wisper. For the time being, I have the A2 and an A1 on its way...along with the Kayaksailor adapter from Klepper America and the 1.4 Kayaksailor.

DLee
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

Hi Orchido,

I'm going to make some pictures and write a description of how I mounted this rig either later today or tomorrow. But first I wanted to say that my own personal opinion is that you might be better off with the 1.6M Kayaksailor vs. the 1.4.

The AII really wants the larger sail and I don't think you will have any issues with the 1.6 on the A1 either. On the Wisper you could use the rig reefed and have a great sail as well.

If you plan on using outriggers I would definitely go with the larger sail. The outriggers will create drag and they won't allow you to capsize...

Just my opinion, but if the order hasn't shipped yet, I'd give Dave and Patti a call and talk to them about maybe switching to the larger version.

I sailed and fished a couple weekends ago in the AII with my back turned to the 1.6 sail at least half of the time... it's a mild mannered rig...

my .02¢

Dennis
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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gbellware
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by gbellware »

Orchido,

What Dennis says, X2.

Dennis,

That is one nice setup. What would happen if you turned the akas upside down? Seems like the kayak will be well-heeled (no pun intended) before the amas touch the water.

Enjoy that fine rig!

Greg.
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

DLee
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

Greg, I thought of that and it's easy enough to do as they simply rotate around.

My concern is that when they do catch, the point of the aka will dive and want to spin the whole thing around putting a lot of stress on the ama which would translate directly to the coaming.

However, if it works it would be great. I'm sure I'll try it when conditions warrant.

'Let's see if Dennis can cause an outrigger to flip...' Ha.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

Looking forward to those instructions, Dennis!

Unfortunately, I already have the 1.4. Originally, when I put in the order through Klepper America, I figured it would see most use on the Wisper and less on the A2.

I've tried it a few times on the Wisper and once it catches, the 40 lbs kayak (along with its lightweight paddler) absolutely flies along the water. Mind you, I'm leaning quite a bit as well and I'm still holding onto the paddle to brace for those sudden gusts. Too bad there's no room to do a proper forward paddle, but I guess that's not necessary when skimming along the water.

With a beamy boat like the Klepper, I would probably push the boundaries a bit more. But in case I push a little too much, it would be nice to have that Hobie Sidekick to save me.

Attached a photo of myself with in the Wisper and with the rig up. Not sure if you can see, but there is a custom made deck top (made from marine fiberglass) that attaches to the kayaks D-rings which the Kayaksailor sits on. Extremely stable and quite light, but with an outrigger system then I would feel more confident and be able to enjoy the moment more! I may, however, need to devise a different system for attaching the Hobie Sidekick to the FC than to the Klepper.

One kayak at a time.

By the way, you must be a high angle paddler. The Hobie Sidekick doesn't seem to extend very far from the sides of the kayak. I was thinking there might be a problem with low angle cruise paddling with the Sidekick installed behind the cockpit. Not the case with you?
Attachments
P8048783-2.jpg

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

....here's a better photo of the Kayaksailor setup I have on the FC. Easily attached and removed.... Now imagine that with the stability of a Hobie Sidekick!
Attachments
photo.jpg

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gbellware
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by gbellware »

Orchido,

That is a very cool custom mount. Is that molded fiberglass? How did you you fabricate? Have you showed it to Dave and Patti at Kuvia?. I would like to make one for my Kahuna but this looks pretty complicated. Nice work!

g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

DLee
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Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by DLee »

Hi Orchido. I agree with Greg, that is an amazing mounting deck for the Wisper. Would love to hear how you made that.

I got a little jammed up with work and then the rain came so I haven't made those pictures yet, but I haven't forgotten. Briefly, I made two mounts for the Hobie. The Hobie comes with a mounting system that works really well for mounting on hard surfaces. I did my second mount this way on on a 6" Long Haul accessory board. The board is slotted with two J-bolts for mounting on the coaming. This works well but the board needs to be wider than the mounting bar so that you can tighten down the J-bolts; so minimum width on the board would probably be around 4". This is great for a double where there's plenty of room but I don't think the 4" board will fit behind the comfort seat on your new MK1.

My first mounting solution involved having a piece of tubing the exact same diameter as the Hobie's. I measured and measured again. Calculated and re-measured, cut the tube, drilled all the holes and it didn't fit. Close, but wrong... it did however give me a template for cutting and drilling the next one properly and that one fits perfect. There's very little room for error here, much to my surprise. Without the hole being slotted the J-bolts become very finicky. An 1/8" off with a poor angle on one hole and it's not going to work. This is the best solution though as you can mount the rig behind the seat as in the T9 pics above. Mounted behind the seat you can paddle with either a high or low stroke and you won't hit the outrigger. At least I don't unless I'm going for a big turn sweep... but you have a rudder when sailing anyway.

I'd like to take my T9 cross bar to a machinist and see if I can get it slotted for the J-bolts. As it is, it wouldn't fit the Ute at all and fits the AII in exactly one spot for about a 3" section of coaming - in the forward cockpit; where it would be in the way for just about anything. This is the 'proper' solution though.

The board mounting works, but it's not a great solution. Along with needing the extra space for the J-bolt knobs you also need to drill 1" holes in the bottom of the board so you can reach your finger through to push the button to release the 'outrigger' portions when in the 'down' position. Doable, but not great. Again, it's a good solution for a big boat like the AII and you can mount other stuff on the board if necessary.

This will all make a little more sense when I post the pics.

That fiberglass mount looks like it could be a perfect place to use the standard Hobie mounting system. How strong is it?

You know, the Klepper S1 sail rig could be a lot of fun with that MK1 and the Hobie outriggers...

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

Actually, I didn't make it. Living in a 500 sq. ft apartment with a strict strata, I have neither the space or equipment to fabricate this. I had someone make it based on direction from me, so I can't really take the credit. However, I can tell you how it was made; it really wasn't all the complicated.

The piece itself is actually two marine fiberglass boards. Basically, the steps:

1) Place boards on top of Wisper and do a rough mold (basically bending down the middle)
2) Draw outline for perimeter, drill points (the D-rings on the deck), surface attachments (e.g. U-brackets), hatch, and any unused areas
3) Cut out perimeter with a bit of extra around to allow some "buffer", cut out the unused spots (to save on weight), cut out hatch spot
4) Mold once again to ensure accuracy and once done, cut out the extra around the perimeter, smooth out edges
5) Apply multiple resin coats (this fixes the board); let dry in between to set the board.
6) During one of the applications, before resin sets, add the sail crossbar support (which should be made of the same material)
7) Once resin sets, place marine grade U-brackets on top and mark pilot drill holes. Drill holes, add the brackets and bolt down.
8) Do the same with the attachment points along the perimeter (where the D-rings will attach)

That's it in a nutshell. It's a simplistic summary, but you get the idea. Honestly, most of the time was simply waiting for the resin coats to set. The only change I would make, should I do this again, is to added multiple crossbar supports so I could move the sail either more forward or backward....depending on whether I want to paddle or utilize the sail only. It looks more complicated than it really is, but I'll attach some photos so hopefully that will provide some context....

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

Attachment point to D-rings.
Attachments
Bolt threaded from underneath through the deck mount.  D-ring latched on and held in place by a wing nut.  I would recommend a shorter bolt so there is a lower profile (to prevent accidental catches).
Bolt threaded from underneath through the deck mount. D-ring latched on and held in place by a wing nut. I would recommend a shorter bolt so there is a lower profile (to prevent accidental catches).

orchido

Re: Hobie Outrigger

Post by orchido »

View of U-brackets and crossbar supports. Brackets are marine grade metal and supports are fiberglass. All told, it makes for a very strong mount.
Attachments
I thread a bolt through the fore bracket and then secure it with a wing nut, once the Kayaksailor is sitting in it.  No wobble room. :)<br /><br />The &quot;bridge&quot; the brackets are attached to are simply smaller pieces of the fiberglass board pieced together to make a rectangular bridge.
I thread a bolt through the fore bracket and then secure it with a wing nut, once the Kayaksailor is sitting in it. No wobble room. :)

The "bridge" the brackets are attached to are simply smaller pieces of the fiberglass board pieced together to make a rectangular bridge.

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