Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

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HeavyWeather

Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by HeavyWeather »

I just tried out the Kayaksailor on my "new" Feathercraft K1. What a world of difference from a double folder with outriggers.

Took it out in 22 mph winds with gusts to 30. Yes, it was a little freaky. Wished it was more like 10-15 mph for the first run, but you have to work with what you have I guess. I totally failed at pointing upwind as it was too gusty for me to control. Also the practice lake is kind of gross and I didn't really want to go for a swim, 98 degree air temps notwithstanding. Downwind was a hoot, we were really hauling the mail. Beam reach required a steering paddle assist as the rudder wasn't up to the job.

It think my favorite take-away from the experience is learning to use the paddle as planing outrigger while under sail. It helped a lot when I was already heeled over and getting hit by 28-30 mph gusts.

What are some of your favorite/most freaky experiences and/or useful tips using a Kayaksailor rig on a folding single?

FrankP

Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by FrankP »

My wife and I went out Sunday with 14 MPH wind with our MK2 and 1.6 m Kayaksailor & Genoa. We had better speed into the wind than running with the wind. We got 7.2 MPH into the wind two times and the best I could do running was 6.3 MPH. I still have some trouble tacking to starboard on a close haul. The wind seems to want to push us downwind unless I use the rudder a lot. Those small leeboards strike again! :x The Port tacks worked well though so I'm puzzled about that.

MoeJoe

Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by MoeJoe »

Play with the angles of the leeboards. Having them vertical or slightly forward should make the kayak steer up towards the wind. Around 20 degrees back gives neutral balance mosty for me. More angle back and then it falls off from the wind. I actually mostly steer with the leeboards and keep the rudder in neutral position to avoid breaking. Perhaps the leeboards are a bit small with two peope in a K2, I don't know.

john allsop
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Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by john allsop »

As you have found out if the wind is too strong you can,t sail into it, so you would just be blown downwind. If i can,t paddle into wind with the sails down and make progress i don,t go out, a wind meter will help here if you need it to tell you the wind is over your limit, normally i know if the wind is too strong. To be blown down wind and not be able to get back could cause serious problems. I have sailed my single seat Folbot Yukon with the 1.4 KS without problems, but then the wind was much calmer than 20-30mph at such a wind speed i would be on the beach looking at the white caps. Sailing down wind, i have read that sailing directly down wind is not the fastest a boat can go as it will never reach the speed of the wind, apparently it is faster to sail at an angle to the wind when going down wind, it is then possible to exceed the wind speed although a klepper most likly wouldn,t owing to it,s design. Maybe my Triak will but as the wind varies it is difficult to be sure. Now the longer lee board on the KS, when using a Klepper Aerius 2, if you make longer lee boards then when they are "racked" forward to help in going up wind more of course is still in the water which helps. But are we too concerned with going up wind, we have boats made for paddling, if we want to primary sail souldn,t we be getting sail boats or in my case a Triak which i have used this year more than my folders.

FrankP

Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by FrankP »

John I disagree with your assumptions that we are trying to use kayaks for sailing upwind is an inappropriate concern. I do it all the time and while my wife controls the KS I do paddle to keep the speed up when the wind dies down or to help tacking. We enjoy doing both, paddling and sailing and I find it more enjoyable to do both at the same time. In fact when we decide to paddle only I miss sailing. I also don't agree that we should buy a true sailboat if sailing is what we want to do. I look at it as we have a craft that allows us to do both. Perhaps we won't be as efficient sailing out kayak as a sailboat but at this point We both enjoy the boat and it's dual use.

In heavy wind it is easier to be blown a little downwind and a longer leeboard would have to help. Just how much I don't know as I have never sailed in anything other than our LHMK2 & KS. We, as early as yesterday afternoon, went out on a 2 mile long lake with variable wind from 5 MPH to over 12 from the east. The lake is mostly east to slightly west north west. We had much better luck on a beam reach rather than running west ward. I agree with you that running may not be the most efficient. Even wing on wing. However, when we needed to sail into the wind we had no problem on a close haul except I needed to use the rudder to keep the bow from turning downwind. It also seems that it is that initial change in port tack that the bow is sliding downwind but as I correct with the rudder we get back into a close haul quickly and I have to use the rudder less as we continue our close haul. Our starboard tacks don't seem to have as much slide. To cover the distance yesterday when we wanted to return to the ramp, I think it took 5 or 6 tacks to get back. I could have extended each tack to make it fewer but we enjoy tacking.

Again John I like the dual use ability.

john allsop
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
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Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by john allsop »

Frank i use my sails every time i go on the lakes but often i find that to go up wind on a narrow lake it is quicker to paddle back to my starting point than make short tacks. My nearest lake, 5 min away is about 3km long but only 1/2 a km wide and the wind almost always blows down the length of the lake, so one way the wind is behind me and when i turn i am going straight into it. To stop the bow swinging down wind a lee board further forward might help, with my set up that would be easy to do as i am alone so sometimes controlling the sail and paddling at the same time can be more difficult, my KS rig can be moved back and the lee board moved forward as they can be independant of each other. I do paddle when using the sails if it helps. I find tacks to port are easier than tacks to starbord i havn,t tried to find out my.

FrankP

Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by FrankP »

John I guess we are blessed with over 24 lakes plus Lake Michigan all within a 45 minute drive from our house. Most are within 15 minutes. Most are big enough to sail on and not too narrow as you described. Many are situated so we can pick and choose the lake we want to paddle on based on where the wind is coming from. That said, we have not worried much about that since we seem to be able to tack into the wind pretty well. Again we seem to get going faster while on a close haul or beam reach. Yesterday we were about 2 miles from the ramp and decided if we were not going to have to take the LHMK2 apart after dark, we would head in. The wind died down and I paddled almost all the way back. It was about 30-45 minutes and we finished taking down at almost 8 PM.

I did keep the wind on my beam most of the way back but it was not great so we didn't get much help from the sail. I know what you mean that depending on where the wind and the ramp is, it seems counter productive to turn away from the ramp to tack. We could have overtaken a kayak and paddleboard going back to the ramp but we tacked to gain a little better wind so we got in later than the kayak. I get your point but I guess I really enjoy sailing in the LH.

john allsop
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: isles of scilly UK

Re: Kayaksailor on folding singles, share your experiences

Post by john allsop »

Frank, Some of our lakes are fairly long and quite narrow, these are part of river systems and were used and possibly created by logging companies when the logs were floated down to Lake Superior. But of course there are better lakes for sailing on which are not far away. White Lake is about an hours drive and very large, it has a Provincial park although there is a public launch area which is free, the nearest small town to it is White River of Winne the Poo bear "fame". Some of the lakes require driving through the "bush" on old logging roads which on their own can be quite interesting but not suitable for cars, allowing camping at lakes outside people have never heard of. Most of the time i have lakes to myself which is nice, then long or short trips can be made on Lake Superior and there are a number of Provincial Parks on it,s shore, plus Pukaskwa Nation Park. All considered where i live it,s pretty ideal for kayaks and canoes although the summer is short.

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