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PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:00 pm
by john allsop
As members may remember i was able, after a lot of painfull thinking, make the P A sail go up wind by making a fairly narrow and long lee board, raking it forward, (the length helps here) and pulling one of the "A" masts down towards the deck and also pulling the other mast a little way down. I have just been reading how the LATEEN sail works and what i probably did was turn the PA sail into a perhaps poor LATEEN. So one of the fun things for this summer if it should ever get here before next winter,( right now it is snowing like heck, more winter exercise,) Back to the sail, remove the sail from it,s mount and the bugee cords, then rig it as a proper LATEEN from a short mast, lets see if it works. Any PA owners out there should think about this it could be interesting the LATEEN is only a triangle, a way to tie the halyard to what will become the top spar will have to be sorted out, not difficult, lets see.

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:59 pm
by DLee
Great idea John. Don't forget that you will also need to have a way to hold the bottom spar of the sail to the mast so that this 'boom' remains level. I imagine a clove hitch on both mast and boom would to the trick pretty easily. It would bind for raising and lowering though.

I found a lateen sail after Sandy. It's big but I've been thinking of trying it out on the Klepper mast. I need to lighten the existing spars though, they're kinda heavy. I've been wondering if bamboo would do the trick. I'll take some measurements and report back here on the sail dimensions. You might have some thoughts as to whether it will work or not.

d

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:23 am
by john allsop
Unless i am doing it wrong the bottom spar is fixed to the mast with a mast slide and the sail can swing around the mast, You can go without a bottom spar and sail loose footed with a longish line from the front of the sail to the sail mount at the bow. The top spar is not really fixed to the mast and is pulled up with the halyard, Remember a Lateen can,t be reefed. The photo shows it "loose footed" with the line to the bow too short (i think). This is the mast slide sold by "Spring Creek" for lateen sails, Sail boats to go sell one which is a different design. It is made for a 1-3/8 mast but the "spring creek" one can be enlarged a little, (this one has been enlarged for my new bigger diameter mast. It is bolted to the lower spar in the position i would select. As it requires holes to be drilled through the spar it is , i think, unsuitable if playing with Pacific Action "masts" as these are fairly small in diameter. Here is the way i made the hinge between the two spars. The size of my Lateen sail is 10ft along the lower spar, which is not being used in the photo, 10ft along the diagonal spar, and the other measurment is about 10th 7in, (i could,nt open the sail in the house to be sure of the longer measurment. The mast is 9ft 5 1/2 inches long and 8ft 7 inches to the halyard pully, these are from the bottom of the mast not the deck.

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2014 8:38 pm
by DLee
John you are absolutely correct with the mast slide. I didn't realize you had that part and that they were even available for sale. That's good to know.

If you know, what are the dimensions of your Lateen and what are the spars made out of? Wood? Do you think bamboo would work?

How tall is your new mast John? Do you know what the square footage will be on the new sail from Mick?

That is certainly a good looking rig just as she sits. Delightful.

d

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:18 am
by john allsop
Dennis. The spars and mast are made from "dowel" 1 3/8 dia, the mast bends under load so i am going to use the long aluminium mast with the block the halyard goes through the same height from the deck as it is on the wood mast, i won,t need all this long mast which is 1 5/8 dia. The Lateen sail is 47 sq ft if there is room i will lay it on the floor to measure it. Bamboo if it,s cheap could be worth a try as these long spars are heavy. I don,t know the size of the sail from Mick, the ordering was "a shot in the dark" from what he said it should include a Mizzen and i didn,t know what type of sail, he said it is a Sprit which should be interesting as depending on the type it could have a diagonal spar and non on the bottom.

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:01 pm
by DLee
It's going to include a Mizzen? That's kinda curious… but great. When I think of Mizzen I think secondary sail at the stern… is that what you are thinking?

I can't find my book on sails right now which is frustrating… But if I remember correctly the foot of the sail can be loose or attached to a boom. I imagine loose(d) might be a little easier to handle but boomed might be more efficient. Well, I'm certainly excited for you. Is this coming soon or months in the future?

There is starting to be an awful lot of bamboo growing around our NY neighborhood. There's a pretty big patch outside of one of the schools - grown beyond a homeowners fence line - it's here I think I'll harvest from… if they're big enough. I haven't checked in a while. Hopefully they are still there!

d

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:52 pm
by john allsop
The sail from Mick. He said it will include a mizzen so we shall see, about delivery Mick is very forgetfull but knowing his medical problem he his excellent and will send a very good sail although i don,t know when exactly. In Tod Bradshaws book, "Canoe Rig the essence and the art" it shows The spirit boom rig where a boom or spar goes across the sail at a slight downward angle,and The Spirit Rig where the spar goes up to the "peak" at a sharp angle, these two sails don,t look the same, which will arrive i don,t know,sounds crazy. Tod Bradshaw dosn,t mention a spar at the foot. It would be better if these spars are curved so that the sail can fill with the wind in either direction. The new mast is 15ft 2in in three sections so most likly only two will be needed. Bamboo of course wouldn,t grow up here but we are surronded by millions of trees and right now tons and tons of snow.

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:57 pm
by DLee
John I went and looked at the bamboo today. The selection appears to be anything from 1/2" to 1 3/4". I was impressed. It was hard to tell the weight as they are all still firmly in the ground but they feel like they will be quite light. Definitely boom material here for me if I need it.

I could probably wrap one up and send it to you if you didn't want it too long.

d

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:47 pm
by DLee
Every time we think the weather is breaking here the temp drops down into the teens again… whew.

John, I wanted to recommend a book that you might enjoy while waiting for your sail. It's called 'The Working Guide to Traditional Small-Boat Sails' by David L. Nichols

The book has a lot of neat stuff in it from marlinspike to different types of sail making and finding the center of effort of the sail. But mainly it deals with a few classic sails; Sliding Günther, Sprit, Lug Sail, Chinese Lug, and Gaff sails. The author seems to have a particular appreciation for Sprit sails, or 'Spreet' sails as Dixon Kemp called them. Anyway, if you don't have this one it's a very interesting read at 96 pages and offers many different ways to rig your 'possible' sprit sail.

I think I bought mine through Amazon… and now that I think about it I wouldn't be surprised if you recommended it to me a few years ago. Ha.

d

Re: PACIFIC ACTION / LATEEN SAIL

Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:36 pm
by john allsop
Dennis, i have been trying to answer you but the site keeps logging me out. The book might have been suggested by Alex, a very experienced sailor who unfortunatly no longer posts. The book is available in the UK and cheaper over there so i will get it when i arrive in the UK. The book by Todd E Bradshaw is large like what i call "a coffee table book" although i think it is quite good. I have had no news from Australia so it,s just wait and see, at the end of next month i will send Mick an e-mail. Spring is just arriving, it,s minus 4 but the sun is strong enough to start melting the snow so by the end of April the lake could be liquid.