2nd sail

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FrankP

2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

We were speeding along at over 11 MPH in a 12 MPH wind. Great time today. Great kayak & sails.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRVPSO2 ... e=youtu.be

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

Just a minute later yesterday:
http://youtu.be/m4CVKz0pEk4
We had fun.

DLee
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by DLee »

Frank that is very impressive. You looked like you were really flying in that second video. What was that speed and did you determine if it was knots or mpg?

Any idea how much the KS is really helping?

very cool, congrats again.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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gbellware
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by gbellware »

Thanks Frank et al., made my afternoon, I will be sailing this weekend!

g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

Good to hear about sailing this afternoon. I hope to on Sunday. The weather looks like it will be great.

Dennis it was knots. So 10.1 knots was the highest I read on the speedometer app on my cell phone. If that is true that's 15.15 MPH. WOW! That was brief and the max speed otherwise was 9.1 & 9.9 knots. Most often in the 7.2-8.1 knot range. It was gusting 15 MPH and pretty unsteady with waves about 1-1.5 ft. All in all a great time!

I asked my wife if she thought on our close hauls if the KS was working hard. She said YES! the only time she had trouble was when we sailed with the wind back to the ramp. I had us headed on a run and the KS was out one side and the BSD on the other. Wing on wing. It looked cool but the KS was behaving badly. It would not stay on one side. I'm sure it was operator error on my part. We soon decided to gibe more at an angle and still it was a little flaky. My guess is the BSD was robbing too much air from the KS.

We are babysitting my 2 grandsons Friday & Saturday. Maybe we will take them out Saturday, one at a time, with me in the smaller part of the lake, near the ramp. Sunday, my wife and I will go out by ourselves for sure.
8)

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

If you have any schooling you can give me as to why the Kayaksailor was doing this I would appreciate it very much. We were running with 8+ mph wind & 12-15 MPH gusts but it would ease up and that is when most issues happened with the KS took place.

http://youtu.be/6rq5Y7I9JTE

DLee
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by DLee »

I don't know for sure Frank but I think you are exactly right - the BSD is robbing wind from the KS, perhaps causing some turbulent wind to hit the KS at the same time causing the KS to bounce around.

I might have tried steering just a little to port to see if I could fill the KS with wind when it was on the starboard side ala wing on wing.

As you continue to sail with both I'd love to hear any comparisons you might make sailing with the KS and without.

I am very impressed with the speed you are achieving there, really looks like fun. What a nice big lake too!

I'm hoping to get out this weekend as well.

Cheers!

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

I hope to take my grandsons out Saturday afternoon. 6 & 3 so I will only use the BSD and stay very close to the beach. I will see what I think with the BSD by itself & Sunday I have Cheri put up the KS only for a while. Last year the fastest we could ever sail was 7.2 MPH in any wind speed. We had from 8-18 MPH. With the BSD & KS we have done 10.1 Knots with 15 MPH gusts. So I think it's safe to assume they both work but the addition of the BSD really makes all the difference.

Now I really wish I had taken David's advise from BSD 2 years ago and bought on then.

Good to hear of your sailing plans this weekend.

BY THE WAY, THANK A VETERAN FOR THEIR SERVICE & REMEMBER THOSE WHO DIED FOR OUR COUNTRY.

DLee
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by DLee »

David is definitely a salesman. He almost had me walking out the door of the NY Boat Show with a rig when I really wanted to be walking out with one of Mark's boats... ha. Ended up sticking with the idea of getting a MK1... still trying to afford that... but I must admit that I did go to Valverde's site this morning while waiting in the Dr.'s office to check on prices.

I just wish you didn't have to use the outriggers with those sails... I don't have a problem using them, but I think it would be fun to go without every now and then when the boats not loaded with gear and the water's warm. It just doesn't even seem possible with the height and high performance of the rig.

Have you tried to lean against the sail at any point; maybe to keep the Ama's out of the water a bit? Is is Aka or Ama... I'll never keep that straight.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by DLee »

By the way, John Allsop is no longer able to log into the site. Apparently his computer is too old? That's what John said. Just thought I'd let the gang know. I got an email from him a while back. He seems fine and is excited to get his new Flat Earth sail up and running.

Wish we'd get him back in here. I'm sure he's following your BSD adventures Frank.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

I'm not sure it's a good idea to sail w/a BBQ w/o a BOSS outrigger. Unless you do want a swim. We did lean but did not sit on the side if that's what you mean.
David has a good product & a passion to have people be able to enjoy them.
The only lyrics thing Iworry about is will we ever want to just paddle again.

DLee
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by DLee »

I agree Frank, I'd probably mount my BBQ on the akas anyway to keep coals from spilling into the boat! Ha! I'm sure that was a self correcting typo for BSD.

The thing I was thinking about this morning is that your speed is so great that you could put a thru-hull syphon in your hull to help drain water from capsizing... that sail has some power. It's so tall though that you would simply go right over again without serious leaning and trapeze style leaning is just not a realistic option for this kind of boat. That's playing a different ball game than what I think we are interested in.

Something not so tall but equally efficient might do the trick. Probably something like what John is getting from Mick at Flat Earth, a well made, modern materialed, Sprit sail. Something that you can spill the wind from quickly without all that top weight. That might make a serious sail usable sans outrigger in the right conditions.

You certainly made a good investment there Frank. For some reason your straightforward videos are more impressive than some of the others that I have seen. You can really see the speed. You're not totally loaded down like the Doi Nomazi's always are... cool stuff.

I also have been meaning to ask, do you have a Quattro from Mark?

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

FrankP

Re: 2nd sail

Post by FrankP »

No its a custom classic w/2 sponsons. Doi Nomads have a different goal in their adventures than we do & I don't know how to professionally edit my videos like they do. I did ask if they could show more sailing footage in a forth coming video. I like more on the water video. What you get from me is raw video without music. Maybe one day!

We were going to go out with the grandsons but decided to go to a petting farm zoo instead. We had a great time. Sunday we well take Big Blue out. Winds predicted @ 8-10 mph.

robonaboat
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by robonaboat »

I'm the Aussie who bought the same LH MkII as FrankP last year, except mines a quattro and I have an 18sqft BSD in front of my 36sqft main, instead of the KS. I'm going through the same learning experience. I have the same problem with my foresail going downwind, especially light winds. So far all I've discovered is this. In stronger downwind sailing I've had the leeboard angled backwards quite a lot to move the CLR aft to help it keep a downwind course, and not broach. Then, even without my feet on the steering pedals, I can steer the boat downwind by sheeting the 36 main well out to one side, while sheeting the 18 foresail much further in on the other side. If the boat tries to broach [turn] I pull in the sheet of the sail on that side, and/or let out the sheet of the sail on the opposite side. Each of the sails wants to pivot/turn the boat toward the opposite side to which it is on. It seemed counter intuitive to me at first, but it works. Hence the smaller foresail, which also has some of its wind blocked or deflected by the larger main behind it, needs to be sheeted in much tighter to have the same force acting on it as the main. If you get it right the pivoting forces to port and starboard even each other out and boat goes straight downwind without touching the rudder pedals. In practice, so far, I can sometimes set it up,self steering downwind, with both sheets tied off, in ideal conditions for a while at least. . Or next best, tie off the main and keep foresail sheet to hand taking it in and out a little every now and again as needed to maintain direction. And I can do this with the rudder down [keeping that CLR astern] but feet off the steering pedals. Just steering with either one or both sheets. Downwind with strong wind and big waves, I have a sheet in each hand and feet on the pedals, countering the attempts to broach this way and that, surfing down the bigger waves, and burying the bow in the trough. Wondering if she will ever pitchpole over the bow if it doesn't come up, or I can't stop a full broach as she planes at high speed down the rogue wave thats much bigger and steeper than all the rest. It would be the ultimate capsize drill as she trips over the downwind/wave ama and buries upside down in the trough. I sail alone mostly so my imagination scares the crap out of me. I hope that helps. Cheers, Roberto
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

robonaboat
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Re: 2nd sail

Post by robonaboat »

Frank, on the subject of boat and wind speed, speeding at over 11mph in a 12mph wind seems unlikely. Did you miss type something? Or, so I've been warned, momentary speed readings on GPS can be exaggeratedly high due to missing satellite signals or something like that. And how did you get your wind speed measurement? I've just started doing wind measurements with a cheap anemometer. after I get home I check against the wind speed records online, of the nearest official anemometer. They have them all around the coast here in Moreton Bay, Australia, and on buoys in the middle of the bay too. But over about 15 knt wind speed I don't dare hold the anemometer up because its not waterproof. I've used my Garmin GPS a few times. Highest recorded peak boat speed 8.3knts, although I know it's been a little faster than that in the past. Average speed one day for over 6 hrs in 15 to 20knt winds was 3.6 knts. Average boat speed on the water for 8 hrs another day in 20knt avg wind, and 1 to i.5 metre seas was 3.7knts, sailing out and back at right angles to the wind, but pointing upwind to counter getting blown downwind. I had too much sail up though with the main reefed to 22sqft plus the foresail 18sqft. The lee ama did go underwater a few times. Once it bent the ama [yes,thats the inflated part] so badly I thought there would be damage. It stopped the boat, snapped back into normal shape and I sailed on. Nothing broke, no visible damage. It was my first sail in such strong winds and big seas. It's not usually that windy here. Yes Frank, it looks like we really did make a strong and durable choice of boat and sail rig. Lucky for me. I've got a lot to learn. And Dlee asked me to describe my boat. Its my first and only folding kayak. Only had it a few months. My boat is the Long Haul MkII quattro 520 with BSD schooner rig, 36HP sport and 18 expedition sails plus BOSS outriggers. And I mostly sail solo from the rear seat. And I'd like a 32 expedition as a foresail in light winds. As you can see I like statistics. Roberto
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

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