Let board steering

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FrankP

Let board steering

Post by FrankP »

So let's see if I have this right:
To help turn into the wind, put the leeboard further forward. To turn away from the wind bring it back some.
Is that correct or should I leave it angled back a little all the time?

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gbellware
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Re: Let board steering

Post by gbellware »

You have it right as long as you have lee helm, which is the case for 99% of us (bow falls off the wind). It is easier for me to think of this as using the position of the leeboard to either help keep from getting pushed off the wind or allowing for the wind to push the bow farther off course. Forward = more help, aft = less help. It is just the opposite if you have weather helm, where the wind pushes the stern off the wind. And these apply only running into the wind. Downwind your helm will respond more to sheeting, as described by Roberto.

g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

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DLee
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Re: Let board steering

Post by DLee »

Probably what you should do first Frank is set the lee boards to neutral, straight down and see what the boat does on it's own without rudder input.

My AII with the KS to neutral almost always has a weather helm when I sail solo. It sounds like that extra 25cm Greg has puts the KS rig that much further forward and gives him a lee helm. You of course will be experimenting with the BSD rig and two passengers so you need to establish your baseline of sorts to see which way you should even begin. Keep in mind that every different angle at which you attack the wind will affect your helm differently. Although I find I almost always have a weather helm... just a little difference in strength.

I'm surprised Greg that you consistently have lee helm. I didn't know that.

I remember fishing while sailing and completely forgetting about the KS while dealing with the fish. Each time, in a light wind, the boat turned itself into the wind and basically stopped forward motion. It was very handy to have the boat simply park itself if I got distracted. Wish my car would do that. Lee helm on the other hand will take you downwind and get you into all sorts of trouble.

I like Greg's description and I may adopt it while sailing as it's more user friendly than mine. Ha. Here's my overly complicated approach; I think of the lee board as a pivot point for the boat and sail. I think of where the most power in my sail is, the center of effort, CEO. If the lee board and boat balance directly below the CEO you should go straight. If that where the situation and you moved the lee board forward your pivot point would go forward and that same CEO power would push the stern of the boat down around the new pivot point pushing the bow into the wind. If you pulled the lee board back you'd move the pivot back and now the bow would have more power and pivot the nose downwind or leeward.

So there are many factors... where is the CEO? Are the lee boards directly under the CEO and how is the weight distribution in the boat affecting this balance. At least that's my novice approach. Did I explain that correctly guys?

You know Greg I had completely overlooked the aspect of the mizzen creating a stronger weather helm... I guess adding a mizzen would mean pulling back the lee boards more to the center of the boat. That's not too convenient. How'm I gonna get my lawn chair in there now? I also get the impression that the mizzen gets little attention while sailing... is that correct?

d
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DLee
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Re: Let board steering

Post by DLee »

So I guess Roberto and Frank's ideas on the schooner rig may be more lee board friendly than the mizzen idea.

'Just wrong again dad' as my son would say. Ha.

d
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robonaboat
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Re: Let board steering

Post by robonaboat »

My understanding is that everything everyone wrote above is correct and yes to all the questions. Except I don't know if the guess/ conclusion Dennis came to at the end is correct or not. I maybe don't have enough information to understand that? But I'm interested, so could you talk me through about our schooner rigs are more leeboard friendly than the mizzen idea, please? Greg has done a good summary of the leeboard effect on steering in that thread, so I'm going to add something there. Roberto.
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

robonaboat
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Re: Let board steering

Post by robonaboat »

Sorry, I'm referring to the second sail thread for Gregs good summary. I can no more multithread well than multitask well. Roberto
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

FrankP

Re: Let board steering

Post by FrankP »

When you figure CEO on a BSD schooner rig the leeboard is about even with the last, however, it rakes back. Then to make things more difficult there is the foresail with no leeboard. It would seem you have to place the total center of effort forward of the main mast. When we were out last week I thought having the leeboard angled slightly back seemed to work best. We are going out Sunday with both sails for the first time. I am going to play with the leeboard to see what works best. The winds will be 12 MPH + so it should be a great time.

I don't always sail, but when I do...It's MK2 & BSD for me. Stay unreefed my friends!

robonaboat
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Re: Let board steering

Post by robonaboat »

Frank, yes I think it's best for you to go on water and do lots of pivoting of the leeboard {a little can make a big difference] on various points of sail, and playing with the sheeting. Raising or lowering the rudder also has an effect, as does if there is crew in the front seat or not [weight distribution fore and aft], plus point of sailing relative to wind direction, plus wind speed, wave conditions, plus reefing one or the other, or both sails. Plus whatever else. For those not sure of what we are talking about, it's the balance between CLR {centre of lateral resistance-of the underwater parts of the boat to the water] and CE or COE [centre of effort of the above water parts, mostly the sails, to the wind]. A desirable balance makes it easier to sail in the direction you desire with maximum efficiency. And that desirable balance is usually different for different points of sailing [direction you're pointing in relation to the wind direction] It's a bit complicated, so best to go out and play with those controls mentioned, and come back and ask some questions. I'm keen to hear how it goes. Roberto
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

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gbellware
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Re: Let board steering

Post by gbellware »

"stay unreefed my friends"

OK, just laughed out loud.

g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

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