Another Sail, another capsize

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DLee
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Another Sail, another capsize

Post by DLee »

I set the boat up days ago only to experience days with no wind or no time. Finally, yesterday morning, I had two hours and the wind was blowing. Blowing a little more than I would have liked actually. I hit the lake and started with the main, made a correction to it's rigging and raised the jib. Now I was just getting back into the groove of sailing this S2 rig when I started taking off... boy if only I could have maintained balance at that speed for a bit longer...

Here's a link; a little long for you sailors... I'm sorry to everyone else. Click the little spread apart arrows on the video play bar to enlarge it for max quality:

http://www.dennisleephotography.com/Boa ... /i-cHF7r9G

I tried to keep her from turtle-ing but couldn't do it. The mast and sails got stuck in the weeds so I had to strike them before I could get her turned back up and it was still really difficult.

Lessons: get on the leaning board before the boat takes off... maybe?, release the main sheet as she's going over...( to allow the boom more play as you fall out of the boat I broke my boom this way a couple years ago)... right. Actually the whole process seemed really slow motion. I hope I don't have to practice this too many more times, but if I do there is a good chance I'll be able to release the main sheet as I go over.

In the slow mo you can see the jib and it's sheets hitting the water and probably causing the capsize sooner than the main alone would have:

http://www.dennisleephotography.com/Boa ... /i-3bzTR3x

What's plainly and kind of painfully evident is that there is just no way to have saved this from the seating position I began in. Food for thought.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by DLee »

Hindsight: I wonder if the Harmony sponsons would add just enough buoyancy on the outer edges to keep the boat right for a few more moments?

This might be worth trying. For testing I'll use straps... but horror the thought that they work and I need to add D-ring patches to my beautiful black hull!

One more thought: Man those Klepper lee boards work!

Image

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

FrankP

Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by FrankP »

I hear BSD sells these great amas that are around 11 ft across. They even come in blue w/black bottoms. Of course if you enjoy getting wet you can keep trying sailing w/o them. Kidding but from my perspective, keeping my wife from becoming a swimmer is task #1 for me. :)

DLee
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by DLee »

Believe me Frank I hear you. You don't see anyone else in the boat with me do you?

I strapped on the Harmony sponsons this eve, if I get a chance to play again this weekend I'll let you know how they work. Next step would be the Hobie Sidekicks. Thanks for the tip! Ha.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
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robonaboat
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by robonaboat »

Keep it coming guys. I watched the slomo several times with pauses trying to work out how and where it may be most useful to sit out on my double. And I have perfectly good BSD outriggers, but may not always want to use them, or may not want to reef. Also there's nothing like being able to eyeball the other guys equipment and layout to make mental notes for later. Thanks. Roberto.
2013 Longhaul Mark II Quattro with BSD schooner rig and outriggers. Packraft
Incept K40S

FrankP

Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by FrankP »

Your video leads me to ask a question about the BOSS system: At what point do you think if you bury an ama, when will you likely capsize? I did that once to the extent that the ama turned 90° so the front of the ama was pointing down into the water. The other ama went about 3 feet up and We both let the main sheets out all the way and we stalled but we were dry. It happened due to an under inflated ama David said but I've noticed since we put on the BSD 24 instead of the KS, the inboard ama seems to be pushing down and wants to submerge more easily if we are really sheeted in and going fast.

DLee
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by DLee »

Here's my guess. I think there is so much volume in those Amas that it would be impossible to capsize. In fantastically bad conditions you might be able to pitch pole, flip as# over tea kettle, but I don't think it's possible to roll.

When you're ama dug in what happened? The boat probably took a nasty lunge to that side, probably gave the entire boat a heck of a jolt and then it bounded back up. Meanwhile you guys let loose the sails dropping wind pressure.

I think the Amas can dig down, even flip around, and do all sorts of nasty things to the forward momentum of the boat. But as soon as that ama is pushed under water... it's going to come back up. Unless it can get under the boat... you're not going to flip. What do you have? 5 feet out to each side? That's a tremendous amount of pressure required to push that big balloon five feet down into the water. It's going to want to come back up every step of the way as well.

I think you stand a better chance of breaking something than capsizing. I wonder if the amas would have less tendency to dive if you moved them forward to the first mast.

I understand what David is saying and the design of the ama should keep it bouncing along the top. At some point though speed and pressure could surely push it under. So, even though you have the outriggers, when you are really flying it might not be a terrible idea to think about counter weighting that ama a bit - i.e. do some leaning. Take your Type IV pfd that you have onboard, set it on the coaming, sit on it and lean. You have the perfect set up to try this.

Here's something to think about as well. Can your wife control the sails and steer if you were to fall out of the boat or fall asleep? A tiller and a long handle would allow her to steer the boat. She might like that... she steers while you hang out over the edge... nice!

Ok, I'm going to slap my Sidekicks on and give this S2 another try.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

thalweg
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by thalweg »

tie an empty gallon milk jug to the top of the mast, mast floats are also available to keep the boat from going turtle
1960's Klepper Passat
1970's Klepper Classic Aerius II
1956 15'3" Lyman

ChrisO

Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by ChrisO »

Dennis,

Great video! Very instructional, you can see the puff of wind hitting the water in front of you just before you went over. Really clear, those "cats paws" on the water.
But I am really impressed with your recovery, I can tell that you have practiced!

Chris

DLee
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Re: Another Sail, another capsize

Post by DLee »

Thanks Chris. I only wish I could have enjoyed that blast of speed a few moments longer.

I'm re-editing to a very short version. As it is I cut out a lot of the underwater footage while I zipped up my PFD and put my floating strap on my glasses... which I foolishly had forgotten during prep. Need a checklist! ha. I stuck my head up into the cockpit at one point and it was such a nest of floating lines I got right back out of there. I never even got up into the air pocket.

Usually releasing the main and jib sheets is all I need to do to bring her back up. But this time she was really in the weeds and in real life it felt like a lot more time was going by than it shows on the video. For a little while I thought I might have to dive down into the weeds and see what was going on. Not high on my list of things I want to do. Fortunately after striking the sails she came up with some very serious weight shifting and rocking up above. It's funny how little this translates to the underwater footage.

If I could find an interesting float for up top I would do it. For now the aesthetic is more important than the flotation. I'd rather turtle than have a milk jug mounted up there. Ha. That said, the weeds are a real problem and I used my Hobie Sidekicks the next time I went out.

The Sidekicks worked better than I expected riding about 16" above the water on a level hull. I had a light wind day with a few gusts and really only put the outriggers into the water a few times during sailing. I did test them pretty well by standing and rigging the sail while anchored a few hundred feet from shore. I also spent more time on the sailing seat and found it more comfortable than I did on the video day. It is a little high but it was really easy to shift just enough weight to one side or the other to counter any boat lean. But again, it was a mellow day. More to come on that.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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