BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

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DLee
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Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by DLee »

Well I am officially jealous guys. Looks like you had a great day.

Seems like the BSD rig is a little more efficient as well eh?

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

jcwlx
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Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin and Shanghai, China

Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by jcwlx »

Dennis,
I think the BSD rig points about as high to the wind as the Klepper, but is faster for three reasons: 1) More sail square footage overall with the BSD schooner rig (60 versus 55 sq feet on the Klepper S4); 2) more efficient airfoil sail design in the fully battened 4 oz dacron batwings, than in my 50 year old stretched nylon sails; and 3) sails have about a one foot higher center of effort, where winds are more effective. I am not really very concerned about speed for the sake of speed, but when we are out sailing with Frank, and possibly others, it is nice to be able to keep up. I am making a 12" longer lower mast for three reasons: 1) to give my wife/crew head clearance from the S4 boom, which will also raise up 12" higher; 2) so I can make a bigger working jib (the current one is 14 sq ft), and Genoa of 25 sq ft....the Genoa will bring my sail area up to about 66 square feet; and 3) it will increase the height of the centre of effort. The new mast will cost about $150 with hardware and blocks, and the sail about $50 (materials only; self cut and sewed). So the only improvement I am missing is the fully battened batwing sails. I had considered buying a BSD 36 sport so I could run it with a working jib or a Genoa, but this would only give me 61 sq ft total. While looking at the BSD website last night, I looked at their 5 m2 sail (reefable down to 4.3, 3.9 and 3.0 m2), and thought about buying this instead. 5 m2 = 54 sq ft. With a 25 sq ft Genoa this would give me up to 79 sq ft., perhaps more than a Klepper/Long Haul can handle structurally, especially in the coaming area. It might require 2 or 3 sets of coaming clamps on a wider upper mast support to distibute the load to a bigger area of the coaming (instead of the using only one set as used on the 38 sq ft sails and below). Of course, this size sail area could only be used in light winds without seriously jeopardizing stability. With 66 sq feet of sail on the S4 rig with a genoa and the BOSS/Wilkes outrigger, I'm good to 24.7 mph winds/gusts. With 79 sq feet of sail on a 5 m2 BSD/genoa and BOSS outrigger, I'm good to only 20.9 mph winds/gusts. Not a problem if overall winds are light and steady. Of course I could reef/jib this down to 46 sq ft, or drop the jib and run only 32 sq ft on the reefed 5 m2 sail; or drop the main and run only a 14 sq ft working jib or 25 sq ft genoa. It gives all sorts of options for total sail area, all the way from 14, and up to 79 sq ft ! However, BSD does not currently make a mast for the 5 m2 sail if you can believe it ! They recommend using a 1-3/4 or 2" diameter mast, about 15' length I believe......easily made in 3 each 5' long sections. So Dennis, I think that it's also time for you to join the club and add a good set of outriggers to your Klepper, so you and your wife :D can enjoy sailing with good stability and improved performance. My wife loved the improved sense of security with the BOSS/Wilkes outrigger system. Happy sailing...are you back from your western trip?
1965 Klepper Aerius 2 with 2005 Long Haul hull
1965 Klepper S4 sail rig, with 14 sq ft jib; Sail Rite 32 sq ft genoa; and 41 sq ft main
BSD/BOSS-Wilkes modified outriggers
Spring Creek outriggers
Souris River Canoe
Wegu 19'Sailboat

DLee
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: South Salem, NY
Contact:

Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by DLee »

Hi Chris, yes we are back and what a trip it was. Loved the drive but not nearly enough time to play. Would have loved to have met you and a bunch of other fellow folders on the trip but there just wasn't any time. I delivered the T66 the CO and didn't even get to meet Steve. Bummer there, but I did get to see his wonderful house. That's two great member houses I've seen but still no actual people. I take that back, I did meet Alex and his wife a couple years ago when the Kayaksailers where the vogue of the day.

I might join the BSD club one of these days. Perhaps the BOSS/Wilkes system, perhaps a full on rig. Getting my wife out would be nice and the security of outriggers the key. I definitely am interested in some bigger water sailing so serious outriggers is the place to start. I submerged one of my Hobies earlier in the summer so I'm liking the idea of the BOSS's size.

The other option as always is the KS, Klepper lee boards and relatively relaxed state of sailing without the outriggers. Greg seems to be content with this and I reflect on that occasionally... perhaps once again, 'Less is More.'

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

jcwlx
forum fanatic
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin and Shanghai, China

Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by jcwlx »

Hi Frank,
Nice video! I noticed in the first half that your ama certainly does seem to plough water in the front more than I would expect in relatively light wind. I expect this is a combination of the high pressure inflation of the ama and the angle that the ama is set at w.r.t. the boat. You might want to just pull out the aka retaining pin for a brief period and let the ama float/rotate freely and see what happens. I would guess that the ama would tip upward at the front a bit and stop ploughing water. If that is the case, then I would consider drilling another hole for the retaining pin which allows the ama to sit 5 to 10 degrees higher in the front. Have you asked David Velverde to look at this video and give his opinion? I have not been sailing with these outriggers long enough to fully understand them yet.
Chris
1965 Klepper Aerius 2 with 2005 Long Haul hull
1965 Klepper S4 sail rig, with 14 sq ft jib; Sail Rite 32 sq ft genoa; and 41 sq ft main
BSD/BOSS-Wilkes modified outriggers
Spring Creek outriggers
Souris River Canoe
Wegu 19'Sailboat

FrankP

Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by FrankP »

I remember we talked about the idea of another hole in the aka to tip the front of the ama up a little. The only thing I'm concerned about is adding two more holes in the aks that may or may not weaken them.

jcwlx
forum fanatic
Posts: 75
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:48 am
Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin and Shanghai, China

Re: BOSS amas on Klepper/Long Haul with S4

Post by jcwlx »

Frank,
It will not weaken them if you do it correctly. You must put the holes at least 2" or so away from the other set, and I would rotate them around the tube more than the 5 to 10 degrees that you raise the ama nose. It just means you don't put the retaining pin in at exactly the same clock position as you do now, which is not very important. Also, remember that the holes are going through the area of the doubler connector that joins the two tubes. You probably want to ask David Velverde to get his opinion also. I expect he will tell you the same thing. Good luck.

Chris
1965 Klepper Aerius 2 with 2005 Long Haul hull
1965 Klepper S4 sail rig, with 14 sq ft jib; Sail Rite 32 sq ft genoa; and 41 sq ft main
BSD/BOSS-Wilkes modified outriggers
Spring Creek outriggers
Souris River Canoe
Wegu 19'Sailboat

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