Mizzen dreams

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DLee
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Mizzen dreams

Post by DLee »

So it's been pretty quiet lately - another nice video Frank, looks like you guys are still having some fun out there as it cools off.

Anyway wandered over to this german site and did some reading on sailing and mizzens... there are lots of interesting links here including a beautiful model that has great detailing of the Pouch RZ85 described in this sailing evolution. Of note is the unique rudder system, an inspiring fastening system for the lee board cross bar, sail making plans for the latest version of their mizzen and some pretty interesting diagrams on rigging and sailing with the mizzen. The English translation is pretty poor by google but you can battle your way through if you're interested enough.

In summary the opinion was that lower wider sails worked better and with the 6 sq. meter rig they ended up with (including mizzen) it sounds like they were one of the faster boats on their lake. They extended the original leeboard to .5 meter below the keel and with the mizzens extended Center of Effort moved the leeboards back behind the forward seat. This positioning improved coming about dramatically and they said the extended leeboard helped give a little more warning for capsize saves. The unique suspended foot peddle allowed the forward seated sailor to reach back and steer if necessary. I like the idea of this being a hand tiller when I'm kneeling in the boat. Very versatile.

Interesting article.

http://www.faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-faltb ... egeln.html

Been a little too busy to play lately myself but still dreaming about getting out before the snow falls.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, whilst we are in lock down and not allowed on the water I am looking through the sailing section and of course I saw your Mizzen Dreams which I also have. Did you ever get around to trying anything with a Mizzen? So far I havn,t. I, like you thought of using my S1, but our very experienced member gbellware thinks it.s too large and his comments are mirrored on the German site www.faltbootbasteln.de which you mention, they indicate 0.9 sq metres and the S1 seems to be nearly 2.5 sq metres so it looks like he is correct. Unfortunatly I can,t read German so the written article is a no no. While I can get a sail made on the island until this lock down is lifted I can,t get anything done, if I can afford it.

DLee
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by DLee »

Hi John, how's it going? I hope you and your wife are safe and sound during these bizarre and somewhat scary times.

I never did get around to setting up the mizzen. Frankly because it's just too much sail for the AII without outriggers. If I ever make friends with the outriggers I will certainly be giving it a try. I did however play with the idea in my yard. This is the testing ground for many an experiment, most never make it to the water, hahahha. The mizzen was one.

I think Greg's idea for mounting sounds great. As far as the sail size I think the S1 could be used with some modification. Here's what I've been thinking about trying with my S1. As you know the sail rides on the mast via a sleeve. I think the sleeve is a real PIA because it doesn't allow reefing or anything else. What I would like to do is take the sail to a sailmaker and have them cut the sleeve off or fold it over and put grommets on the leading edge of the sail for attachment. This would allow you to reef the sail by simply rolling the boom UP. The gooseneck will hold the rolled up sail in place very nicely (I do this with my S2 sail). The sail would then be controlled by a line connected to the end of the boom or a clamp at the center of the boom.

This might be a very affordable way to both modify the S1 for more flexibility in normal use and allow you to reef it down to a workable mizzen size.

But, if you are like me. You'll have a hard time pulling the trigger on modifying the original Klepper design... anyway some food for thought. Here's a picture of the full on S2 an S1 as mizzen in my yard many years ago. Actually April 8, 2012, how about that?

Image

Cheers buddy. Let me know what you think. d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, get some great big outriggers and call it a trimaran, not a kayak with training wheels. It appears the Kajaksegal mizzen is 1.5 square what ever it,s called. There,s no virus on these islands and we are cut off from mainland England no one is allowed to go off the island and no one is allowed to come, but still I can only look at the sea, going on it is not allowed. Probably if I go out our 2 1/2 man police force will be waiting when I got back and the weather is wonderful. We have a sail maker on the island but he has had to shut up shop, until the government tell him and all the few other shops they can start trading again. Sail size I am thinking a triangle one metre along the base and two metres vertical which should be small enough whether a bottom boom is needed or loose footed i don,t know if it matters. And make the mast from wood.

DLee
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by DLee »

Sounds like a plan John. Be sure to post some pics. If you could figure out how to mount it I'm sure you could reef the S1 down to that size pretty easily. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Yeah, I'll probably throw the outriggers on one of these days and go play in the big water...

My AII is showing some signs of deck deterioration. Not sure what to do about that. Sent an email to Mark at Long Haul, haven't heard anything back yet. Sounds like you're in a nice safe, albeit boring, situation over there John. Lots of time to play with boat design, hahahah.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, There are two ways shown on how to attach the mast, Careen still have their web site and they clearly show their way, it,s fixed to the frame below the boomerang but apparently not held at the base of the mast which seems odd. Kajaksegal give their idea from the photos on their site which at the moment I favour. Where is the problem with your skin? I had this on a 1960s skin, I patched it and put keel strips on using two part adhesive, I don't know if you have used this adhesive but you get quite a large can of glue and a very small bottle of hardener, once mixed it lasts about three hours In some places I put patches on both the outside and inside at the same place. Of course you can help Klepper by buying a new skin. And then there,s a Mizzen sail, on one kayak the sails are blue and white so if the funds are available I might get the local sail maker to make me a blue one. Now the next thing, I think when using a mizzen the leeboards could be moved further back or have an extra lee board near to the mizzen I wonder if that would work, I have plenty of lee boards.

DLee
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by DLee »

John, you know the straps that hold the 'tie down's at both the bow and stern. Well, not only is the thread completely shot but the actual straps tore through like nothing. I broke one accidentally and felt another going as I applied a little pressure. So I stopped before I lost two of them. I was anxious to sail so I didn't spend too much time thinking about it and set up the MK1. I think I'll get a new skin from Mark at Long Haul.

I wanted to show you a pic of the S1 getting reefed. In this case it's quite extreme, but you get the point. I think a sail maker could really set it up nice for you to make it any size you want on the fly.

Image Image Image

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1254
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: isles of scilly UK

Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, thank you for the photos I see how it needs the grommets in the sail to allow reefing. A new skin from Long Haul, that will be nice. Everything that I have seen from him looks first class and worth the cost.

DLee
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: South Salem, NY
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Re: Mizzen dreams

Post by DLee »

Yeah, I really like Mark's stuff and the prices are reasonalbe.

I'm going to sail the S1 as you see it in the pictures. I'm thinking it's going to work pretty well as is without the grommets. I'll let you know. Solway Dory's reefing sail doesn't have any grommets connecting it to the boom, this would kinda be the same principal but rolling the boom instead of the main mast for reefing (as SD does).

Here's a link to the page with those pics if you want to zoom in.

https://www.dennisleephotography.com/De ... -LFpj2pV/A

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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