Folding Kayaks Forum

Took the T9 out yesterday into Long Island Sound and paddled and sailed about 4nm. Wind was light, 5-10 knots according to NOAA weather. Top speed was 4.2 knots with an average of 2.3.

For all the confidence the Harmony sponsons gave the T9 while sailing, it all went out the window and got a little exciting when I folded the sail and deflated the sponsons. There was about a 1 foot + irregular chop, that made the T9 'lively.' Once underway it was fine, but I'm not sure the T9 is the perfect boat for open water. Thoughts?

Many times while under sail the wind seemed fairly consistent and I thought I should be able to sail without the sponsons. Deflating the sponsons however immediately revealed the tremendous support they had been giving the boat. If I had even tried raising the sails without the sponsons I'm convinced I would have gone instantly over.

I consistently thought that I should be able to get up on my knees in the boat with the sponsons deployed, but a half mile offshore in choppy conditions didn't seem like the place to try that out. I'll test the 'moving around' idea down in the lake and report back when I do.

The bottom line is that the Harmony sponsons work great and I highly recommend them to anyone that would like to add a little more stability to their boat for either sailing or perhaps moving around inside the boat to find gear, food, etc.; or just take a break in choppy conditions.

I'm still using the wrap around strap mounting system, having a couple D rings on each side just below the deck on the hull would be great for mounting these things. Obviously they'd be a huge advantage for re-entering the boat after a capsize.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

Dennis,

About the apparent loss in the stability of your "bare" T9 in chop:
When under sail, the wind pressure on the sails will stabilize you. Lower the sails and it is just you and the chop. Reminds me of sailing in a dying breeze on the Berkeley flats (you might remember those): Wind gone, chop remains and the boat just pitching and rolling.
When deflating those external sponsons, your body needs to get adjusted to the suddenly tippier kayak. "Suddenly" is the key word here, it just takes a bit to get back in the groove (dynamic stability!). Doesn't mean that your T9 isn't suitable for open water. There are a few things you can do to improve stability if needed: Lower your seat to lower your center of gravity and add ballast down low to do the same and also make the T9 sit lower in the water (increases waterline beam). In Germany the T9 has the reputation to settle down nicely when loaded.
I would, like I do with every kayak, check out both primary (how easily will it lean?) and secondary stability (how far can you lean, and how much resistance do you then feel?), preferably at a dock (or use a paddle float). Try this with ballast and lower seating position. You might be surprised at the difference!
At least on my Kette, lowering the seat changed it from a twitchy ride to a very smooth one.

Chris O.

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Klepper Aerius II
Nautiraid Miniraid
Klepper T67
Pionier 450 S
Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
P&H Hammer

Chris your description is 'dead on.'

It was my first paddle of the year. I really should have spent a little time at the lake doing a seasonal warm-up before heading straight out to the Sound.

Barry M. has also recommended lowering the seat. I actually set the boat up with a foam sleeping pad that covers the entire cockpit of the boat. This allows me to sit right on the floor board with just the foam pad in between. My problem with this method is that I don't have a good seat back. I'm not happy with the original Klepper backrest, but I should try it again... maybe tomorrow in the lake.

But rather than sort that out the other day I just put a Long Haul comfort seat in the boat. The comfort seat is great for sailing but a little tall perhaps for paddling as it has a rise on the front of the seat and an inflatable cushion probably boosting me up about 2 inches. Like you said, once I got going it was fine, but there were a couple wakes and chop when momentum slowed and a little wobbling began. Keeping the forward motion really is key.

What do you do for ballast?

I think I'll do that lean test again as well... with the lower seat.

Thanks,

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

Dennis,

The only ballast I use are my legs: I simply stretch them out, shifts a few pounds down low fast! Works particularly well on my Kette.
The normally recommended ballast is water filled bottles. I was going to experiment at some point with a couple of loose window sash weights in combination with float bags (for safety). Thankfully that remained just an idea...
The most comfortable back rest I have found on old German folders is the "H type. the vertical parts of the "H" support the muscles on either side of the spine. I need no padding with this type.
On both our Klepper AE II, and the Nautiraid I use 9" wide Seairsports back bands suspended by straps from the frames. On the Klepper as lumbar support, on the Nautiraid as the only back support.

Chris O.

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Nautiraid Miniraid
Klepper T67
Pionier 450 S
Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
P&H Hammer

Chris those back bands look pretty interesting... I'll take a closer look at support possibilities in the T9 for that. I have a large compressible water jug I've always intended to use for ballast, maybe I'll finally give it a whirl. Can't hurt to try. Should I put it in front of the feet or behind the seat?

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

Dennis,

I would be more inclined to use a series of smaller water bottles, say four 1/2 gallon ones. Either soda or orange juice bottles should work. If that is not enough go for gallon jugs!
Start with two front and rear (strapped down to the keel!) and then move them around as needed to control weather and lee cocking.
With the single collapsible jug, I would start by putting it right behind the seat. Am I correct in assuming that your T9 tends to weathercock? I know my T67 does!

Chris O.

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Nautiraid Miniraid
Klepper T67
Pionier 450 S
Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
P&H Hammer

The last time I paddled it without the kayaksailer mounted and folded on the bow it was all over the place because the rubber stern boot had huge air pockets in it which would bellow out, catch water and cause the boat to turn drastically one way or the other. I thought I was the worlds worst paddler until I figured this out. I fixed 90% of that a couple weeks ago with Neoprene rubber cement from LH. The starboard side strap that holds the rudder mount has come loose again but I don't think it will affect performance that much.

So... I don't know what it's natural tendencies are. I'm going to try and get it out on the lake this week but right now it looks like rain every day... wish I could send some your way... I'll let you know. I think this first trip will be sitting on the deck without ballast.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP