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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 9:19 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
I received my BSD 36' HP Sport rig the other day and I am pleasantly surprised by it's quality. I'll be doing a little review on this rig and will try and answer as many questions as I can. Sweltering and windless, I spent some time in the yard this evening playing with different sail combinations on my MK1. Here's the visual comparison:

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Full Klepper S1 rig - 29 sq. ft. Main is approximately 1 sq. meter, 11.4 sq. ft. and jib is approximately 1.6 sq. m, 17 sq. ft.

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Full Klepper S2 rig - 55 sq. ft. - main is approximately 3.47 sq. m, or 37.4 sq. ft.

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BSD rig 36' HP sport - 36 sq. ft.

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BSD rig 36' HP sport - 28 sq. ft.

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BSD rig 36' HP sport - 22 sq. ft

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BSD rig 36' HP sport - 22 sq. ft - less one mast section

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BSD @ 22 sq. ft. w Klepper S2 jib - 17 sq. ft. for a total of 39 sq. ft. or 3.6 sq. m.

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Full Klepper S1 rig on BSD 3 section mast - 29 sq. ft. - 2.5 sq. m.

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Klepper S1 main sail on BSD 3 section mast - Klepper boom - 11.4 sq. ft. or 1 sq. m.

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Kayaksailor (1.6 w genoa .04 sq. m) 2 sq. m., 21.5 sq. ft. - 9 minutes for complete mounting... nice

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Klepper double leeboard vs. BSD single

Outrigger/ama Volume comparison in Cubic Feet:

Spring Creek: 0.484

Harmony sponson: 0.76

Hobie Sidekick: 1.0

BSD BOSS: 2.345


I neglected to realize that the 36' BSD had one more variation of 30 sq. ft. by reefing the lower section vs. the mid section.

The Klepper S1 main sail fit perfectly on the BSD mast (less one section). This sail has a sewn in sleeve that's big enough for the BSD mast and the Klepper gooseneck on the boom fits the mast as well. BTW, the BSD mast fits perfectly in the Long Haul mast hole with very little slack and seats in the square keel hole with a square, plastic adaptor.

The BSD doesn't have blocks for the halyards but a nice, solid, through hole assembly at the top of the mast. Feeding the main halyard in from the back there was still plenty of room to feed the jib halyard in from the front. This 'through hole' has the additional advantage of holding the lines in place a little better while raising the mast - the blocks on the Klepper mast would often let a line slip out while you were trying to raise the mast. Since the BSD mast sections are shorter I'm pretty confident it will be easier to rig on the water than the two piece Klepper mast. I am not sure the Klepper gaff loop will fit on the BSD mast, I didn't think to check that... but I will.

The BSD standard mast will NOT fit in the Klepper mast hole on my AEII. The BSD instructions suggest filing the hole open for the standard mast or requesting an alternate mast section from BSD that will fit the existing partner. BSD states that 'the alternate section will not be as stiff as the normal section and will be heavier and will not float.'

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


Last edited by DLee on Tue Oct 06, 2015 9:00 am, edited 7 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:55 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Good pics! Thanks for taking the time to post those.

I have a BSD for my Long Haul Mark 1. One of the things that I don't like about it is that once you set it up with the BOSS Stabilizers you are committed to sailing. I prefer something simpler, like the simple LH spinnaker sail which enables me to paddle while sailing, and no outriggers are required. Of course, the spinnaker--or something similar--is really only effective in certain conditions. It really comes down to what one prefers--paddling or sailing.

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LH Mark I
Nautiraid Grand Raid 540
SOF Greenland Kayak


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:50 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
I agree Paul. When the BSD rig is all set up I can't see how you could take it down and stow it on the MK1. On a double I think it might be possible.

The biggest surprise for me when doing these set-ups was discovering that the Klepper S1 fits the BSD mast. The S1 main sail is tiny when rolled up, it would fit about anywhere. The hope is that it's a forgiving sail as well. If it were possible to rig a long bag on the bow of the boat to hold the mast and leeboard, this might be a viable sailing rig with full paddling freedom. No outriggers though.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:47 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
I used to paddle with the bottom section of the BSD mast in place and would keep one additional section (the top section) on deck with the spinnaker sail on deck as well. When the conditions were right I'd pop in the mast section and unfurl the sail. No leeboard required as this was a down wind operation only. Two mast sections were enough. I think the BSD leeboard would inhibit effective paddling, even without the extension that holds the amas.

Watched one of Doi's first videos in the quattro with a BSD installed and they could paddle, but he said it was a limited stroke.

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LH Mark I
Nautiraid Grand Raid 540
SOF Greenland Kayak


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:37 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
Twice in two days now I loaded up the car, boat on top, and wasn't able to get the boat to water. Yesterday the water was really rough out distant as I looked from the parking lot. I unloaded, rigged the kayaksailor (as a time saver), hiked the boat down the road over the bluff to see the beach. When I saw the waves crashing and less than an hour on the clock for paddling (had the family with)... I turned around, I just didn't feel like getting everything soaked in saltwater. Then today we loaded up again, this time ready for the BSD, one thing led to another and the next thing I knew I was taking the boat off the car again. Aaaargh.

Hopefully tomorrow...

What I did do today was sit in the boat, in my yard, and experimented w rigging while sitting in the boat. Obviously a huge difference from being on the water, but I figured a dry run is better than nothing. Reefing the BSD seems like it will be pretty easy from the seat. I can even break the sail down but I'm not sure how I would store it. Setting it up though is a stretch, literally. As Paul mentioned, I can leave the lower section of the mast mounted. But my arms are about six inches to short to make a comfortable reach to add the extra mast sections (which is probably about 9' long... one handed... on water... probably not happening). I'm discovering that the BOSS mounting board may be a little restricting for movement... can't really tell until I'm on the water though.

Hopefully tomorrow...

Meanwhile the urge to sail without the outriggers is growing huge. Of course the first trip out with the outriggers may change that thinking right quick. Another insight to the BSD, it's super fast to set up. Without the outriggers it's probably faster than the KS. With outriggers about twice the time of the KS, those amas take a little time to blow up and get connected. But compared to the Klepper rig... 'Fo'get about it'.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:27 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Get a bigger pump. The Amas inflate in 10 seconds when you're using something better than that little jelly bean thing.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:43 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
What are you using Chris. I tried using an old foot pump that seems to suck air out of the ama as soon as it started getting full. I find it easier and quicker to inflate in by mouth at this point. They forgot to send me the hand pump and I haven't asked for it yet.

Got out today but little wind and less time so did a quick one hour paddle in the MK1. Really liking this boat.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:38 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1100
Location: isles of scilly UK
It would be nice if the main sail can be "wound" around the mast and done from a seating position by pulling on a line that turns the mast, the sail is furled to any size. With a little thought the jib can still be used. I have this on my, can i say it my hard shell Triak. But it wont work on an S2 gaff rigged sail.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:45 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009PUQGE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 11:40 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 452
john allsop wrote:
It would be nice if the main sail can be "wound" around the mast and done from a seating position by pulling on a line that turns the mast, the sail is furled to any size. With a little thought the jib can still be used. I have this on my, can i say it my hard shell Triak. But it wont work on an S2 gaff rigged sail.


Hi John,
You probably/perhaps know that this is how Solway Dory's Bermuda sails reef. I've forgotten if you're a member of the Open Canoe Sailing Group in the UK. Most of the canoe sailors over here seem to use Solway Dory gear. (I have one of SD's lug sails that I use with my open canoe--but that doesn't reef.)
All the best,
Ian


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:35 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1100
Location: isles of scilly UK
Ian, i have looked at the Solway Dory rigs and the mast could be made to rotate so furling the sail from the rear seat in a klepper. If the sail can be used loose footed and still be efficent which i am sure it can be, then that would be great. Of course i have so many rigs i don,t need another, but seniors and toys seem to go together. The Solway Dory Lee Boards also look very good and would be worth investing in. I am not a member of the open canoe sailing group, being out here on the "Scillies" would make it very difficult to attend any sailing functions. I am a member of the Historic Canoe and Kayak Association.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:35 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 452
I need to find more time for my toys!
Dennis, that's a great job you've done of documenting the different sails. Now, if I acquire a BSD 32' without outriggers, will it be of much use with a single like a T9 or a Wayland, or will I likely spend all my time in the water? Dennis, very much looking forward to hearing how you get on.
All the best,
Ian


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:32 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 820
Location: atlanta, georgia
Dennis,

Thanks for all of your interesting pics and information. You are helping to create a living body of knowledge that will advance the enjoyment of this sometimes complicated sport for novice and experienced kayakers alike.

Now, about that ama ride height thing. Please help Mark design something to make the aka angle/height adjustable! Light, gusty wind = high position for safety; high wind = low position for constant stabilization. Efficient use of wind is accomplished with minimum heeling, right?

Happy sailing,
g

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"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:19 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
Thanks Greg.

The BOSS amas are literally bolted onto the akas under those rubber supports. Four nice stainless phillps heads hold each one on. I don't know what's inside the tube backing them. Properly mounted they are pitched up a bit so the nose rides up just a tad. I was impressed when I read that in the instructions. The Hobies on the other hand rotate freely around the aka. This allows for the multi adjustable ride height. It would also allow the Hobie to dig in and flip although I had never experienced that.

Believe me, I think about the BOSS rig way too much! Ha. It's a tricky one, and I agree with your synopsis. Although I often 'feel' like the boat moves better on it's side a bit... Mark sent me one of his center sponsons to try out... I think this has potential.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:46 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1100
Location: isles of scilly UK
Dennis, i have seen it in various places that a sailboat performs better when it is on an even keel,maybe kayaks with a long slender form is differant. I have not seen or heard of the single centre sponson. Can you shred light on it.


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