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PostPosted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:07 am 
recent arrival

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:54 am
Posts: 4
Just joined the forum. I've kayaked for a number of years. Mostly on lakes and occasionally in bays or ocean. I'm interested in sailing with a kayak. After some research, I'm considering a MK I with a kayaksailor 1.4 or 1.6. Any advice or suggestions would be great. Some basic questions are: Can I paddle with the kayaksailor (sail raised) on the MK I. I'm on the short side, 5 feet 5, and hoping my paddle will be behind or below the sail when it is up. Can one carry the MK I a short distance when assembled? How is the kayaksailor mounted to the MK I? Is the 1.6 sail too much sail area for the MK I.

Thank you for any advice.

Ed

New Hampshire
Pygmy Arctic Turn Hi 17
Boreal Narval 16
Current Design Breeze 13


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:35 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
Hi again Ed.

The kayaksailer is mounted on a composite board of some type of plastic material. It clamps onto the coaming using two web bolts and has a round dowel up front which fits into the mast partner (hole). The board works good but it has a fair amount of flex in it. Making your own would probably be a better idea, or having Mark at Long Haul make you one that is stiffer. In this picture you can see the flex and also get an idea of how it's mounted:

Image

You can see how the leeboard cross tube is flexing a lot more than the angle of the board. I'm not sure what the issue is here... maybe I should check the tightness of my mast track bolts... but I think the board flexes quite a bit and that isn't efficient.

I usually use a canoe paddle when sailing with the KS or any other sail and that works fine. I seem to remember that paddling with the sail down was not much of an issue, but the sail does extend back into the cockpit more with the Klepper mounting board than a standard KS mounting method would. I'd follow Greg's description of paddling with the KS because I haven't paddled with mine for a while, and have not had it on the water yet with the MK1 but I have used it on my Klepper T9 which has a cockpit very close to the same size as the MK1.

Image

The T9 rolls like a log with a sail attached so I used these Hobie Sidekick outriggers and then switch to Harmony sponsons which don't stick out as far. You won't need any of this with the MK1, it's a very stable and seaworthy boat.

If you'd like to drive down here and try the boat and sail together send me an email and we can set something up. The Kayaksailer is a really nice sail and it's very quick to set up. Definitely go for the larger one with the jib as Greg suggested in the other thread.

Greg, what's the traveller?

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:06 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 812
Location: atlanta, georgia
Yes, the custom mount from KlepperAmerica does have some flex. It is made of HDPE and a wood mount would be much stiffer but, afaik, no one has made one yet. That said, you can reduce the flex by mounting the webbing straps outboard of the shroud rings on the cross tube of the Kayaksailer rig. The webbing straps transfer the load from the mast, via the cross tube, to the d-rings and, through them, to the gunwale. I know that is a bit complicated, but just think of the webbing straps acting like the mast stays on the stock Klepper rig, I hope that makes sense.
The traveler is the wood plank affixed to the combing that has all of my cleats and pulleys for the sail rig. I got mine from LongHaul and it works great for my double but it takes up too much of the cockpit in my single, that is why I don't use it for the A1.
Best,
g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:23 am 
recent arrival

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:54 am
Posts: 4
Thank you Dennis and Greg for all the helpful information. When I decide which boat and sail to purchase, I'll be much more informed. You both are a tremendous resource to anyone new to foldable kayaks.

Thank you.

Ed


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:49 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
Greg, I can't imagine trying to get that control board in there... I just use the clamps on the KS itself. That picture of mine twisting is WITH the straps tied down to the Gunneled D rings.

Somewhere back in the Kayaksailer threads there's a german (?) guy that made a beautiful wooden mount for his KS. It was pretty early on in the Kayaksailer development and I can't remember if he ever posted the pictures in the forum. He may have just sent them to me via email.

Making the board would be pretty easy really. It's just that receiving Gerald's in the mail it's literally Plug-n-Play. Gotta love that.

The Kayaksailer is such a nice little sail it would be really great to figure out a way to mount it right into the mast hole at the front of the cockpit.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:21 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: South Salem, NY
A friend asked if the MK1 with 1.6 Kayaksailor would capsize easily?

So I took the KS out on the MK1 the other day and it's a nice fit. I sailed with very light winds and a few sudden gusts... one of which caught me a little by surprise. Although I saved it in plenty time it made me realize the boat could be pulled over if all the ducks lined up perfectly.

The MK1 is very stable with the sail and it would take a pretty good blast to take the boat over. If you were hit by a sudden blast, you were inattentive and the main was tied down in a tight setting, you could have a problem on your hands, at least with the 1.6 sail. In most circumstances I'd say it's a pretty solid combination.

Overall it was a delightful sailing experience. Paddling with the sail down wasn't really an issue. There's a hair more reach needed to clear the sail and leeboards for me but I got the feeling this could become second nature after a short while. Taller paddlers probably won't experience this at all as their reach and height might clear the rig easily. Paddling with the sail up is a different story though. The sail extends far enough back into the cockpit to prevent being able to complete a full stroke with a double paddle. Using the canoe paddle works best with the sail up. Having the rudder down means you can stick to one side and make good headway.

So yes, it is possible to capsize with the KS on the MK1, but unlikely for anyone with a modicum of sailing experience.

Greg, you've been sailing the AE1 with the KS haven't you? Care to chime in here? Anyone else?

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:55 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 812
Location: atlanta, georgia
Dennis,

Thanks for the sail report. And yes, my experience is now the same as yours. I say "now" because I finally made the adjustments I needed to the foot controls. I could not put them far enough forward in standard Klepper configuration, causing my knees to be well above the coaming and my SOG to be ridiculously high...this caused problems with stabiity with sail or without.
Now that I have it sorted out I can get me legs all in the boat and it is amazing what a difference it makes. I have only been out once with the new configuration with the Kayaksailer in gusty 8-10 mph wind and I felt that as long as I paid constant attention with a ready brace I was safe from going over. Now I am on the hunt for suitable thigh braces to achieve even more control.
I have no problem paddling with the sail down as long as I keep a high stroke going, which is what I am working on anyway. But with sail deployed and on a reach there is no way to paddle on the leeward side. So I just don't paddle at all :) except to help assist on tack.
Now if it would only stop raining!

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
Balogh sail rig, 24 + 36 HP
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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