Auxiliary Motor

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MOLamb
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Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

Very excited to have just received my BSD schooner rig for my AEII. I’m currently in the process of mocking everything up and thinking about rigging solutions. I’ll be heading down to Colorado to the Long Haul shop to pick up all the bits and pieces I feel I’ll be needing. High on the list is beefing up the coaming connections with the solution Mark developed that raises the amas 3” and also incorporates a small hiking seat.

I am surprised at how heavy the BSD leeboard is and it occurs to me that this amount of weight hanging off one side of the boat is not ideal. So I’m thinking about adding a small electric motor and attaching it to the aka on the opposite side. A little 30/50ah lithium ion battery would provide the juice. The motor is 5lbs and the battery would be about 15lbs mounted securely in the bow. Looking at the watersnake t24. Where I’ll be sailing I have quite a long, mostly windless, inlet to navigate before I get out into the main body of water. I like paddling but prefer sailing. I’m also a tinkerer and this gives me another cool thing to add to what is fast becoming a very cool boat. Maybe flexible solar on the bow?

Curious if anyone has done something similar and if you could share what you’ve learned. Comments/suggestions welcome. Adding a pic of my mocked up rig.
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Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

JohnSand
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by JohnSand »

I think there is a recent thread on electric trolling motors. I've never used one on a canoe or kayak, but I have one that I've used on a couple of daysailers and a couple of dinghies successfully.

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gbellware
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by gbellware »

MO,
Welcome to the forum, nice looking rig you have going. Looks like you are starting off well...great schooner setup on a classic folder. Couple of general comments..
-As John suggested, there is at least one other thread that discusses motors for folders and deals with some of the challenges mounting them
-The weight of the leeboard? No one I know has any issue with this. I think that is for two reasons. First, the leeboard is mounted fairly close to the boat and really doesn't cause any imbalance and second, it is made of wood and therefore "weighs" much less when submerged
-I am pretty sure your next discovery will be that you need a more effective/efficient rudder, one that is "balanced", especially with as much sail as you are running.
-From my experience the motor you are contemplating has plenty of thrust but you will probably not be happy with run time with the Li ion battery you are thinking about. 30/50ah won't get you much...just take a look at the Torqeedo units which run a 600-900 ah power source for their motor head that is similar to the power and draw of the water snake motor you are looking at.
Anyway, welcome, enjoy!
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

MOLamb
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

Thank your for your reply. I would expect the leeboard to be out of the water when either paddling or motoring so I’m still thinking about its weight in those circumstances but it’s less of a consideration than the main point of adding mechanical propulsion. The torquedo is a sweet motor but I think overkill for what I’m trying to accomplish. A cheapo motor with 7-15 amp draw with max 24 lbs of thrust should hopefully work fine for getting me in and out. That’s 2-4 hours of motoring with a little 30ah LiPo. I also enjoy sailing at night and having a reliable power source for lighting, a little music or phone charging when out sailing/camping would be a nice to have. I may never get to doing it but as I wait for the lake to open and final rigging my mind wanders!

I am heading to Colorado this week to meet with Mark. We have discussed a balanced rudder. I have a deeper drafted rudder that came with the boat but it’s not balanced. Still on the fence about that. I have a barn door rudder on my big boat and I can have hands off the helm for long periods of time with the proper sail configuration. Definitely an apples to oranges comparison though. She has a full keel and weighs 16,000 lbs. In any event most have advised that the balanced rudder is needed and I will likely leave Mark’s shop with one in hand.

Really excited to get this girl on the water and see what she does! I have had a ton of fun so far and she hasn’t even left the garage. Again, thanks for taking the time to reply to my post. Will be sure to repost with any mods I actually end up executing.

Mark
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

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gbellware
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by gbellware »

Molamb,
Yep, sounds like that power will get you where you want to go. Assuming you are running @ 12v you should have 360 wH of juice, and that is plenty to run that motor for a few hours.
You will no doubt have a blast learning and tinkering with all that your rig will give you. Most of us who sail our kayaks end up wanting/needing a balanced rudder, if only for the help it gives under "special" circumstances. With your schooner rig and sailing experience you will probably be able to achieve a (nearly) neutral rudder with sail trim alone. But wait until you try keeping your heading with a following/quartering wind and waves, which as you know happens pretty often. Then you will be really thankful for the advantage of a balanced rudder.
BTW, there is a group of pretty knowledgable and very, very friendly folks who get together several times a year to sail and enjoy each others company. I am a relative newcomer to the group, but it has been around for about 20 years, and still has members who were there at the very beginning. The group is always welcoming of folks who want to share time on the water.
Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

JohnSand
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by JohnSand »

What is your bigger sailboat? I also own a full keel boat with a Big Rudder, a 39' wooden ketch.

MOLamb
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

Hi John,

It’s a 32’ Allied Seawind cutter. An earlier 30’ version was the first fiberglass sailboat to circumnavigate. I keep her on a small island off Vancouver Island. She used to be on Long Island Sound. Here’s a video from a few years ago

https://youtu.be/1i1y4wqmpOo
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

MOLamb
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Posts: 21
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 2:29 pm

Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

Found another one! How do you like maneuvering that beast in reverse, John?!

https://youtu.be/OBD5CPypAe8
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

JohnSand
knight of the folding kayak realm
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:08 pm
Location: Long Island NY

Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by JohnSand »

Nice! Wandering Star (my ketch) doesn't steer in reverse. She either backs upwind, or straight if there is no wind. It's a big part of why I keep her on a mooring, the approach is always upwind.

MOLamb
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

If mine would back straight in reverse I’d take it in a heartbeat. The rudder of course has zero effect and she just wanders (kinda like this thread!) So it’s all about the prop walk. The contortions I have go through just to exit my slip is comical but I’m getting better at it. I was on a mooring in Oyster Bay for years but had to resort to being in a slip on the west coast. She doesn’t belong in a marina but I’m happy to have my ‘escape pod’ wherever she is. Fair winds to you.
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

JohnSand
knight of the folding kayak realm
Posts: 489
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:08 pm
Location: Long Island NY

Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by JohnSand »

Exactly how I feel about mine. In fact the primary reason I own kayaks is so I can still get on the water during the winter. Fair winds!

MOLamb
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

The Water Snake T24 is installed and I must say it has changed my boat and how I use it for the better. There are two power settings on the motor -low gets me about 2.5 knots, high comes in at around 3.5. Motor sailing in light wind is a dream. I have a 35ah AGM battery. Theoretically 5 hrs of noodling around at low power.

I tossed out most of the mounting hardware that came with the motor in favor of something more simpler and stronger. I found I didn’t need the infinite adjustment that came with the unit.

Anyway pics/videos are on the Klepper group Facebook page. Too cumbersome to upload here but wanted to close out this thread with a big thumbs up for auxiliary power!

Mark
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

john allsop
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by john allsop »

I have just received the Haswing W20 which is supposed to be between the Watersnake 18 and 24. I havn,t yet tried to mount it, I am thinking of using the Watersnake mount that they make for kayaks. It would be nice if you could put a photos here of the mounting you have done for those of us who can,t get on facebook.

MOLamb
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Re: Auxiliary Motor

Post by MOLamb »

The first pic is the standard recommended set up. It was not ideal. The mounting hardware is infinitely adjustable but poorly executed. It couldn’t be sufficiently tightened as all the forces were applied to a lateral pivot point. I got rid of all that and made the support much more solid. And yes I am only using two conduit hangers! I’ll pretty it up later.

So as you can see I am trying to add some photos for you but it seems I no longer have that option. Got them all trimmed up, crossed my fingers, but couldn’t do it. No option to add attachments. Too bad. Have I exceeded my allotment? FAQ says to contact the administrator but I couldn’t be bothered. Good forum, lots of info, but utterly painful to interact with. Sorry John, going back to Facebook. Email me if you would like some pics: molamb@mac dot com
Klepper Aerius II Schooner -1950’s
Jackson, WY
Allied Seawind Cutter 32’ 1978
Pender Island, Canada

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