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 Post subject: Folding kayak project
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:05 pm 
Hello,

I would like to build folding kayak that I can easily accommodate on my sailboat and explore shallow waters so I would have some questions.
Do you know about any two persons folding kayak which plans are available online?
The second question is about the skin. I was thinking about PVC coated material so can you advice any supplier and what is actually the price of this kind of material.
I saw in Home Depot something like PVC coated tarp, 9 by 12 I think, but it was gray so it’s going to get hot during a sunny day and besides that it is not very attractive color. But it is cheap, $20, something like that:
http://www.amazon.com/Northern-Industri ... B0007W5LZA
Maybe that is a good choice for a bottom part…?
About the frame, do you think that wooden or composite frame might work if I don’t find aluminum supplier close me? I sow some tubing in onlinemetals.com but they are pretty expensive.
I will appreciate all advice.

Thank you,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:31 pm 
Take a look at Tom Yost's site. He has lots of free plans, although they're mostly narrow greenland style boats.

Tom has lots of advice on there about using PVC as a skin. I think aluminium frame is definitely easiest for home construction.

Nohoval


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:48 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1716
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
There are also porta-botes, high-quality rafts, and other options. If you look around this site you will find many alternatives.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:09 pm 
Here's something from Clark_Craft: http://tinyurl.com/2d8lws


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:23 pm 
Thank you for information. Great site, very professional. Great job was done!
Looks like the Victoria Patagonica is close what I am looking for. But it’s somebody else design and I couldn’t find plans, if any. But that it is two person kayak, looks like it has quite big displacement and it might be used even as a auxiliary dinghy.
On the beginning I was thinking about sit on the top kayak but they are so big that could be difficult to find the place on my sailboat for it. So I decided to build a folder.
I was thinking also about adaptation hard shell kayak plans. I have never build a folder but with such a great site like yostwerks.com that provides professional technical explanation it might be possible to build a folding kayak basing on hard kayak plans. Just thinking. I couldn’t find a link to porta botes that use this technology but I will keep exploring this site. It might be interesting to build something bigger using skin on frame method. Long time ago I saw a small folding sailboat, I am not sure but I think it was Russian product.
Yeah, I am thinking also about Clark_Craft, looks similar to Victoria Patagonica. I am curious if anybody build this kayak recently…
Thank you for all information,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:31 pm 
http://www.amphibiouspaddler.org/builde ... ports.html

A couple of PBK builds described on what appears to be an abandoned Ralph Hoehn website. Several of the links lock up with a black screen with red typeface declaring, "This site has been defaced," and something about a webworm. But the PBK links and the E65 link appear to work. Interesting also is the description of a frame rebuild for a Pouch E65. If you perform a google search for the terms PBK Kayak, you'll turn up a number references, among them these: http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~acsrrrm/kayak/pbk/pkb.html
http://people.brunel.ac.uk/~acsrrrm/kay ... ories.html

I think there's a company manufacturing hardshell kayaks that come in three sections for transportation and storage.

Chris

Edit: This site has some information, but I don't think these boats are folders, just as most of the PBKs do not appear to be folders. C.
http://www.thewoodshop.20m.com/kayak1.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 11:11 pm 
Quote:
Looks like the Victoria Patagonica is close what I am looking for. But it’s somebody else design and I couldn’t find plans, if any.


Hi Maciej

I will send you Rodolfo's email address offline. He is the designer of the Victoria Patagonica and he will provide you offsets (plans) for the kayak if you contact him..

Regards,

Tom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:28 pm 
Tom,
Thank you very much. I like this kayak and I think double boat it’s perfect for what I need.
By the way, what do you think about wooden frame for folding kayak?
Wood is cheap, available, easy to fix , easy to work with.

I even thought about something like this:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/boats/fo ... plans.html
That might look peculiar if you compare it to real kayak. And, what important, I have no idea how it works on the water.
So I think I will make a real folder. VP looks very attractive to me.

BTW, I couldn’t find a link to PVC skin on
http://www.mauritzononline.com/
I am thinking also about canvas or Dacron, especially for the top so it will not get hot when used in warm climate.

Tom, you have a great website, I will be using it a lot when I start to build my boat.
Thank everybody for valuable information.

Best regards,


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:49 pm 
I'm not much into boat-building, - mostly messing around with some modifications, repairs etc. I don't think that wood makes the frame-building easier, and with power tools aluminum isn't more difficult to work with. Wood is softer - this is its' advantage - and this is also it's disadvantage for abrasion between wooden parts. Wooden frame needs additional metal fittings anyway - may be more numerous than if you used all-aluminum frame. HDPE ribs used with aluminum long members, for example, don't require any additional metal or plastic fittings. Fewer fittings - fewer potential servicing points. Wooden frames also tend to be bulkier than all-aluminum ones - important thing when you have a limited storage room. This is just my observations - Tom, sure, can provide more experienced comments.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:35 pm 
Quote:
By the way, what do you think about wooden frame for folding kayak?


Alm covered this just fine. I like wood non-folding frames, as they are light weight and less expensive than aluminum, and of course wood is esthetically pleasing. However, aluminum is easier, in my opinion anyway, to make into a folder. The main reason has to do with the folding mechanisms required ( fabrications).

With aluminum and HDPR snaps, there really are no fabricated parts and cutting and riveting aluminum inserts is easy and quick work. Plus, aluminum requires no sanding or finishing, the same for HDPE. This means that the construction process is seamless with very little "wait" time.

Quote:
BTW, I couldn’t find a link to PVC skin Mauritzon


Try..... http://www.mauritzononline.com/vinylcoat.html - Vinyl Coated Fabrics

Quote:
am thinking also about canvas or Dacron, especially for the top so it will not get hot when used in warm climate.


Mauritzon no longer sells Coverlight Select, so on my last boat I used Coverene. It is a very nice material. Canvas and dacron ( polyester) can be used on a deck, but I don't see the heat issue as justification. Only commercial folders seem to advocate breathable deck materials, though I've never hear a fiberglass kayak paddler , or a PVC paddler, complain of heat.

It will be easier to make it all PVC, and the reasons are glue compatibilty, ease of construction, and good folding qualities. If you coat your canvas or dacron, it won't breath anyway and the Dacron probably won't be waterproof without it. Once coated, neither material will fold without wrinkling, even with liquid Hypalon or Neoprene coatings.

I have a friend in Riga , Latvia who has built an alumium folder ( Sea Cruiser) so perhaps he lives close enough to you to be of assistance in locating materials.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Tom


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:44 pm 
Tom,

I will go follow your advice about materials. Especially that’s going to be first folder I will build. Time saving is very persuasive for me.
About the skin, what is the reason that you use Coverene and not, for example, Tuf Stuf or Super 22 Vinyl. It might be stupid question, I am not PVC expert. I am just looking for possibly strong material with high UV, tear and puncture resistance.
I might use the same material and technique to make a dodger on ma sailboat…
By the way, I live in Annapolis, MD far away from Latvia, but originally I a am from Poland.

Best regards,

Maciej


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:12 pm 
Quote:
By the way, I live in Annapolis, MD far away from Latvia, but originally I a am from Poland.


My apologies ! I saw your email "pl" country code and assumed you lived there. Plus, Mauritzon ships to Europe. Latvia, Germany, Sweden, and Denmark are the closest countries to Poland with builders of my boats. I just know Verners of Latvia better than the others. He is also an inflatable builder and provided me with much information when I was reasearching my own inflatable build..

Quote:
About the skin, what is the reason that you use Coverene and not, for example, Tuf Stuf or Super 22 Vinyl.


I started using Coverlight Select from Mauritzon several years ago and have been pleased with the material and their prompt service. Coverene seems equally good. I know nothing about the PVC's you mention above, though that may be just fine. Purchase what is most convienent for you.

Texas Towers has the best price on tubing that I have been able to find. Unlike most others, they have a very small minimum purchase requirement ( $20.00 I think), and they have one price per foot, not a variable based on the amount you purchase. 6063-T832 is excellent tubing. If you can get a better price locally or nationally, by all means do so.

The VP is a more complex construction, as it follows the German frame technique...Kleeper, Pouch, etc., but on a large folder, this may be best.

Regards,

Tom


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:19 pm
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Holly Thread Revival!!!!
Tom, do you think Rodolfo would make the plans open source for the VP?


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