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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:33 pm 
Hi Brian,
I've been wanting to have a go at one of Tom's designs for a while and hadn't been able to find a UK source for the tubing. I haven't got the space to give it a go at the moment but it seems as though metals4u have just started doing suitable tubing.
http://www.metals4u.co.uk/products.asp?cat_id=177&gclid=CLKw3v7LkJ8CFVVu4wodwA8lIw

It's still maybe a bit expensive but not awful. Tubes are in 1/8th inch increments with 1.2mm wall which I think leaves 0.8mm and should be fine.

Let me know how you get on with things. I will get round to trying it myself one day.

On a sonnet related note... did anyone see the new advanced elements airfusion (http://www.airkayaks.com/ae1040.html)? Looks like a sonnet rip off to me. I'd be interested to see it.

Jon


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:56 pm 
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Last edited by Yostwerks on Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:22 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hello,

Tom, did you ever consider if it's possible to use wood instead of alu?

- or use wood stringers joined with short alu or pvc tube sleeves?

_________________
Rasmus Møller

Triton Ladoga II Adv+3.5m2 sail+outriggers
"Nova" SOF from 1928
Euro + GP


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:00 pm 
Quote:
did you ever consider if it's possible to use wood instead of alu?
- or use wood stringers joined with short alu or pvc tube sleeves?


I'll assume you are talking inflatable folder, and not regular folder....
If so, I see no major obstacles to using wood stringers with sleeves.
Aluminum tubes with inserts will be less work however.

I make take-apart paddles this way so it can be done.....
http://yostwerks.com/AP8.html - 4 pages... Click "Next Page" at link to continue.
"Scroll" down to view text on each page.

My non folders are usually wood framed, whereas my folders are aluminum framed as
I always seek the path of least resistance :lol: ... Tom

Below is my first homebuilt folding kayak (wood). It was more erector set than folding kayak. :shock:
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:55 pm 
Thanks Jon for the link to metals4u.

Interesting way they offer their tubes are sliding inside each other with neat plastic clamp. With their tubes offered in 2m lengths, then it would be ideal for a just uner 4m design.
http://www.metals4u.co.uk/resources/files/adjustable%20tube%20connector.jpg

Brian


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:22 pm 
Yostwerks wrote:
... yes, it's nearly identical to my 4 sponson Sonnet's in frame configuation. ...
I should be flattered, but for some reason I'm not :roll:

May be you should sell Sonnets from time to time. When you have no urgent projects going and have a time to cobble up one or two Sonnets, why not... As an urban dweller, I've been always looking for something for daypaddle or 2-day overnighter that can be assembled easily and paddle equally easy and without being blown sideways by wind. But perhaps some principles of mechanics get in the way. From what I read, with experience, Airfusion (and then you Sonnet, I assume, too) takes close to 25 minutes from bag to water. Possibly, Sonnet takes few minutes less due to fewer chambers. Make it 35 for AirFusion with optional rudder if they eventually offer it. I can put my Kahuna together in 35-45 minutes with rudder, albeit with more physical efforts - so this AirFusion hybrid still doesn't fit my ideal image of daytripper/overnighter. Except for the cost, of course - especially for those who can build it.

Quote:
The only difference I see is their use of 2 inflatable chambers (thwarts as they call them ) to keep the boat from collapsing inward.
I use 2 hinged / or snap-on aluminum tubes to achieve the same result. I was influenced by the Grabner Discovery, but I certainly didn't copy it.

I think Russians were also influenced by Grabner when used crisscrossed aluminum thwarts in their "Shuka" inflatable (2 pairs of tubes wedged against the sponsons back and forth of the cockpit). But, other than that, Shuka is a pure inflatable, no long members, and a lot of design flaws. I prefer aluminum tubes for that purpose - in a boat with so little rigid elements aluminum thwart is a good idea.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:00 am 
Quote:
May be you should sell Sonnets from time to time.


Hi Alex,

That's unlikely.. I prefer to make a prototype and then move on to something else. Otherwise, it feels like work :roll:

I can assemble a 4 sponson / 2 chine Sonnet 16 in less than 10 minutes, and that's at an easy pace. However, that's for the boat alone,
and doesn't include loading gear, etc. The 6 sponson / 4 chine double takes about 20 minutes due to the additional sponsons and chines.
The single I'm currently building has 6 sponsons / 2 chines. The extra sponsons add depth / displacement.

Tom


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:36 pm 
Loading gear, sheesh... In multiday trips moving a camp with these narrow folders is mind-boggling. Even without breakfast it takes over one hour from wake-up to launch, split roughly 0.3/0.3/0.4 between packing the bags, carrying everything to water and loading into the boat. Everything has to be packed compact and placed accurately - you can't just throw things in like in wide Klepper-style boats. But Sonnet is a short-trip boat, so there is less stuff to pack and load.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:11 pm 
Brian ( keyhavenpotterer )

I just noticed that 2 pm's I sent you on Jan 10 and Jan 11 regarding UK aluminum tube sourcing are still in my outbox ?

The builder in Scotland responded by saying that he purchased his imperial tubing at a couple different metal fabrication shops in Dundee.
He said he would send me the names of the fabricators, and their prices, but it's been at least a week since I heard from him. I'll assume
he isn't going to respond again. Sorry.....

If you were to import from Germany, I can get you aluminum tube sourcing.

The sleeves for the 6 sponson single are finished, as well as the 3 strongback stations. I'm going to document this build on my website
with detailed instructions and pics. I'll send you the link when I get it established. Send me your email address. Mine's... tom_yost@msn.com

Regards, Tom


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:36 pm 
My apologies Tom. When I check in on the forum, I think having ticked the log me in at each visit, it would do that, but I just noticed after your post that I am not logged in and have now done so.....

Will double check in future.

I am at a loss with my local tubing supplier's quote. Have been very much under the weather this week after catching a serious stomach bug from my son, so will call the supplier next week to see if there was a miss quote of some kind.

Brian

edit: on logging out my browser, Google Chrome, asked if I wanted Chrome to save the password on a narrow top screen popup. having said yes, it now seems to log me in.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:24 pm 
Quote:
Tom, did you ever consider if it's possible to use wood instead of alu?
- or use wood stringers joined with short alu or pvc tube sleeves?
Rasmus Møller


I know you asked this a while back, but I just found some pics of my "proof-of-concept"
inflatable / folder / hybrid called the "Lacar" which I built in early 2006. I had forgotten that it had
wood stringers. I opted for aluminum for it's successor ... the Sonnet's.

Here's some pics of the Lacar and my first inflatable called the "Quickie". It was sort of
a pre-proof of concept... meaning that it didn't sink the first time out :lol:

I built a working model first, and then the Lacar inflatable....
Image

Lacar on the water.... Note the wood stringers (Cedar).
Image

Lacar proof-of-concept. On this boat, the sponsons were actually part of the same skin as the hull. No commercial Folbots sponsons for this cheapo test bed.
Image

"Quickie" inflatable and "Nikumi" Baidarka..... Proof that all boats are not created equal
Image

Rubba Dub Dub... One man in a tub :mrgreen:
Image

Sonnet inflatable / folder / hybrid...It's not the destination, it's the journey.
Image

Though sometimes it's both....
Image


Last edited by Yostwerks on Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:09 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:22 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks a lot, Tom; this is good inspiration!

_________________
Rasmus Møller

Triton Ladoga II Adv+3.5m2 sail+outriggers
"Nova" SOF from 1928
Euro + GP


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:41 pm 
My son has been looking for an alloy tube supplier for a boat build he has on the go, and he found this UK supplier who lists much better prices. So much lower than before I can hardly believe it.

The price for a 4m length of 3/4" 18 swg is listed as £3.75 plus vat at 17.5%. This makes a huge difference to costs.

http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/Aluminium-Round_Tube/c120_131/p17870/Aluminium_Round_Tube_(6063T6)_3/4_in_x_18_swg/product_info.html

Tom, I have a link from some time ago to a piece you posted on making sponsons. If I made my own sponsons that would also save me a huge amount. Would that be OK Tom?

I think with this much lower tube costs, home made sponsons it makes it a much more affordable project for me as a retired person with minimal income.

How is the prototype going?

Brian


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