Folding Kayaks Forum

I started discussing this under the Klepper area, now moving it here. Recently acquired a T12 (produced 62-65) with an overly-tired hull. Ralph Hoehn has convinced me that I should try building my own. Reviewing Tom Yost's pages now. Does anyone know what happened to the building guide for the Victoria Patagonica?

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

I have been looking at PVC fabrics at Mauritzon. For a relatively double like the T12, would it make sense to make the hull from 22 oz Coverene and the deck from 10 oz Coverene?

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

Chris,

I would ask for swatches of each material.
For the hull I would want a material which has a heavy coating on both sides. Lesson learned from my Nautiraid where over time the outside coating has worn away (beach landings etc) in spots and the inside coating is not heavy enough to prevent pin hole leaks.
If you can find it, a stretchy PVC/ vinyl material is ideal for the deck. The Detex used on my Nautiraid is perfect.

Chris

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Klepper Aerius II
Nautiraid Miniraid
Klepper T67
Pionier 450 S
Kette SE 54
Mariner Coaster
HSF Horst Hartung Slalom 50
P&H Hammer

Good ideas-- thank you Chris.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

I hope no one minds if I resurrect this thread. I just recently contacted Orca-Pennel, which has a warehouse in the United States and sells several different weights of its CSM fabric out of it, including Orca 215, which about 900 grams per sq. meter (its lightest) 820 (1100 g/sq. meter) and 828 (1300 g/ sq meter). Prices range from about $41 for a linear meter of the 215 to $61 for the 240 and $72 for the 828. (Prices don't include shipping.) This is pretty much the old Hypalon, as I understand it. Why not use it for a hull instead of PVC? How does it compare, in price and weight, to PVC?

Thank you-- that sounds like a wonderful lead.

I have owned hulls made of both hypalon and PVC. Currently, I only own hypalon and rubber. PVC is far lighter and is much easier to repair. In my experience, PVC stood up to abuse at least as well (perhaps better).

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

Just to make sure, PVC or TPU? They are in the same family but have very different properties, I think this has been discussed before. Just want to make sure anyone considering going to all that is involved (and I don't know the half of it!) that they carefully consider the properties of the two materials.

Best,
g

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"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

PVC-- Pakboats 2004 and 05 models. They later went to TPU to meet LL Bean's demands.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

I've been looking for an alternative to PVC, such as using a polyester fabric and coating it with urethane, but I'm not sure that will work in a foldable. The other question is whether there are heavier PVCs available. I think Pakboats uses 30 oz PVC on the bottom of its canoes and something lighter on the sides. Mauritzon sells 22 oz. PVC. That's probably pretty good. (There are two versions of this: Coverene and something else. Anyone know which is better?) By the way, Pakboats will sell you vinyl wear strips that you can glue at the keel and chines.