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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:26 am 
ALM said:
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When I go out paddling in a wilderness trip, I don't carry TV, DVD, laptop, etc - I am taking break from this all... In the past I used to carry my cellphone in Aquapack pouch on me on short daytrips. Now I'm purposely leaving it in the car. Because it is establishing unwanted associations in memory, when later in the evening I visualize the place, nice scenery etc, - and with the conversation that I suddenly had to carry on in that place, often against my will, totally unrelated and contrasting to that place. So now my will is - leaving it in the car Smile
My wife and I enjoyed an overnighter at a campground - not wilderness (Fairview Campground, Tims Ford Lake), but out of doors, away from home, this weekend. I was surprised that most of the campsites had electrical hook-ups. We got ours cheap and next to the lake because the electricity was "out" at the site. Anyway, A number of those who brought travel trailers set up satellite dishes, others listened to loud music (yeah, I'm getting old to be griping about this), strung decorative lights, and so forth. Too weird. Probably would've been a lot quieter on a weekday, we thought Mother's Day (U.S. Hallmark Card Holiday) weekend would be less crowded. Maybe it was?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:12 am 
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Makes you wonder why they call it "camping", doesn't it? ;-) I can't image why people pay good money to live in conditions that are more crowded and nosier than the average suburban neighborhood.

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 10:43 am 
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Their form of recreation is different from mine. I think the noise and the goodies are a way of protecting them from their surroundings, and provide a measure of similarity with "home."

And, I suspect we have to face it: many of them are much younger than we are. My fiancee's kids are always plugged into their cell phones, running up hundreds of minutes per month. I use mine maybe 10 minutes a month, max., for emergencies or to hook up with home to find out what to pick up at the store.

If you take away all that noise and external stimulation, then you have to begin to self-reflect, and to watch what nature is doing around you. Thoreau is not a popular guy amongst much of the horde.

Don't forget, a focus for much of our culture is 24-7 Britney-Paris-Lohan-Cruise-Brangelina-Crap. Just page through a People mag to connect.

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Astoria, OR
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Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:37 am 
Hmmm... confession time. I bring a mobile phone (usually left switched off), PDA (just for weather forecasts and tide tools - promise) and... MP3 player. No excuse for that last one. Am I a bad person?


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:09 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Do you find that the music augments your experience? Have you tried leaving it behind?

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~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 1:48 pm 
I just returned from my "mission" to an as of yet undisclosed location that involved almost a week of sailing/paddling and camping. I'm beginning to think that much of our society is bringing the keep-up-with-the-Joneses with them. It's beginning to look like some sort of look-what-latest/most-expensive/most-desirable-gadget-I-brought fashion parade out there :evil:

O.K. -Confession time. I'm very enamored with my I-pod. I still find it startling :shock: that something the size of a cassette tape can house several times over the 200+ volume LP collection my family had when I was growing up, plus a whole bunch of movies to boot :shock: :shock: and be the playing device :shock: :shock: :shock: I'm telling my age now, but I remember my dad installing a cassette player in his car and I being totally amazed that you could play anything you wanted anywhere you wanted. I think we had a grand total of 7 or 8 cassettes that we played over and over again.

But I digress... the point is, how did I go from being someone that was amazed at bringing 7 or 8 albums in a car wherever I wanted, to someone that has to be plugged in all the time? And this is coming from someone that as part of my own counter culture, find-myself revolution, gave up latest technology, grew a beard and (I'm completely serious here) went and assimilated myself into an Amish community in Ohio for 2 years. I should know better; I know the value of making do and finding oneself in that quiet inner place.
Anyway, I was seriously tempted to bring the bloody I-pod with me and stay plugged in. I was all concerned with how I would recharge it and what I would do to keep from soaking the head phones. I'm glad I didn't bring it, but not for those reasons.
If I had been plugged in I may not have heard the whales blowing and swimming near by, or the sea lions, etc. The first thing that clued me into their presence was my sense of hearing.
I did bring my mob in an Aqua sac, but mostly for emergency communication. I did phone my mum to wish her Happy Mother's Day while crossing the Dire Straight under sail with a brilliant beam wind that I was very exhilarated about. And I phoned an old high school buddy that I hadn't seen in 20+ years that happened to live near by, to get together. I left the mob turned off most of the time, but turned it on every one or 2 days to make sure somebody wasn't desperately worried that I had drowned or succumbed to hypothermia. I should add that my mob is my only phone.

Now as far as those over crowded, technology over-run parks. They weren't too bad where I was. Many of the campers were my age or older (+ children) and seemed to have similar values. There wasn't a single incident of my being rocked out of my tent, -whew! some of the campers were rocking out, but mostly from gentle swells hitting their moored sail boats or motor boats. There was a brief period where a nearby air force base was practicing manoeuvres that was somewhat deafening and this managed to rock my supper while cooking a little. I do have to say the parks were somewhat pricey for the amenities they had to offer; $10 a night with no electricity, running water or showers. I was seriously contemplating "commando camping".

I think most of us here are on the same page: The KISS system.

Well at least we won't have to worry about the Britney-Paris crowd invading our space at least until Luis Vuitton starts production on folding kayaks.

-Andreas


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 3:15 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Size of a cassette tape?? You obviously haven't discovered the IPod Shuffle. I love my shuffle.

I think it is inherent in what folding boats are, that the people here would share similar attitudes that you expressed as KISS. I also notice that many of us have a background in backpacking or mountaineering.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:37 pm 
One of my nephews, on Sunday, was trying to talk me into getting an Ipod Shuffle to take paddling. I told him I was more interested in the sounds of water, wind, birds, as well as listening to my own thoughts and ideas - although I tried to say it in a way that wasn't snotty. That bit about listening to my own thoughts and ideas, as if nature sounds were just background for my pithy internal dia, um, monologue :lol: probably serves to evidence that I have an ontological limitation in the area of humility attributable to my self-absorption. :?

That bit about self-absorption above was not intended to mock what Dave's said:
Quote:
If you take away all that noise and external stimulation, then you have to begin to self-reflect, and to watch what nature is doing around you. Thoreau is not a popular guy amongst much of the horde.
For me, it has been, as recently as Saturday, humbling to reflect that the wind's strength will not abate because I am tired of paddling against it, the white flowers will fall like small crowns from overhanging trees to float on the water's surface, as they did last May, if I am not there to pick one up on my paddle's blade to give it to my wife, who decorates the kayak's bow and receives the fragile gift.

I would have benefited Saturday from the use of a GPS (heck, if I'd looked at the map again after printing it, or not left it in the car at the campsite) - might not've paddled 7.5 miles in the wrong direction and then had to paddle back against a constant headwind. Doh! I almost always bring my camera when paddling, but forgot it in the tent.

The one positive thing my wife noticed about the campground (she teaches First Grade) was that it was good to see a large number of children playing, riding their first bikes (some with training wheels) without being part of some structured activity, like organized team sports, and to see them out of doors instead of glued to television.

Chris

Edited to add stuff. C.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 9:47 pm 
krudave wrote:
Their form of recreation is different from mine. I think the noise and the goodies are a way of protecting them from their surroundings, and provide a measure of similarity with "home."

And, I suspect we have to face it: many of them are much younger than we are. ....

If you take away all that noise and external stimulation, then you have to begin to self-reflect, and to watch what nature is doing around you.

There are millions of people like them, - in older age too. They are not kayakers, and many of them will never be. Just a different form of recreation, you're right. Watching nature and self-reflecting isn't a unique talent, - most people after 20 or 25 can be taught this. In fact, they can be taught earlier, but at that age there are usually other interests - but they will return to this later, if they know how.


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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 11:15 pm 
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Here's a funny thing: "... they are not kayakers."

That's true. I hardly every meet any other paddlers who have noise going, either in camp or on thw water. But, now and then I do. Sometimes it is someone paddling, for exercise, mainly, I think, stroking along with earbuds in.

But once, it was a pair of brothers, on an Independence Day camput, middle of mostly nowhere, who wanted to have their little fireworks display, and who had some soft rock type music going in their campsite ... not loud, but enough to give them some "ambiance."

It did not really bother us much; the fireworks were over in an hour, and the music was barely audible at our campsite 30 meters away. Seemed like the music was important to them; silence was not.

One of the brothers was a severe asthmatic, with clearly serious impairment of his lung function. But, he was out there, having fun, paddling five-six miles from his vehicle and rapid help for his condition, bonding with his brother, I guess.

Seemed appropriate, somehow, and I did not begrudge them their music. It did not annoy me.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:10 am 
Quote:
Do you find that the music augments your experience? Have you tried leaving it behind?


Well you've got to understand that I'm not plugged into it the whole time, or anything like it. I'm a music junkie, but when I'm camping I do like to sit quiet a lot of the time and listen to the sounds of wind and sea. But on the other hand I like to bring along a flute or ukulele and add my own sounds.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 12:05 pm 
I should clarify; I'm not condemning people that bring music or whatever with them. Only the people that seem compelled to broadcast their particular brand of heaven (or hell) to the rest of us.
There are many pieces of music that would have been especially appropriate for me at times. Mozart's Horn Conciertos come to mind. In the end however, I feel the entire experience was richer for having left the IPod behind. -Anyway, it sure is one less last thing to worry about.
But I still can't decide how I feel about losing an entire week of BBC Newspod or the other podcasts I subscribe to :?

KvK


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 5:29 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Actually, one of my reasons for getting a shuffle was to use audiobooks. It weighs a lot less, on a trip, than a book!

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:25 pm 
I've thought about taking an actual book with me on the boat. Maybe poems of some sort. Been reading some of Edith Sitwell's poetry, but I'd have to get a volume that'd already been abused to throw in a ziplock to bring along. My wife and I read to each other by Petzl headlamp at the campfire Saturday night. A novel, her choice. She said I looked like a dork with the light on my forehead. I guess that's not really leaving electronics behind, is it?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:55 pm 
Christov_Tenn wrote:
I've thought about taking an actual book with me on the boat. Maybe poems of some sort. .......
I guess that's not really leaving electronics behind, is it?

We can't leave all the electronics behind - at the current stage of our civilization it is too late for this. Like others here said, - the problem is that some people have rather specific views on the recreation on campgrounds, not only bringing the artificial environment that they are supposedly trying to escape from, but also being selfish and careless enough to spread it around. Using LED lights for reading a book, or listening to audio-books in Ipod doesn't make much difference to me, both being passive absorption of some pre-selected fiction information, not related to present-day routine. Watching news on TV dish, or using cell phones for non-emergency calls - this is more substantial withdrawal. Though, audio-book has effect similar to movies, - read by professional actors, with sound effects etc, so it withdraws you from real surroundings more efectivvely than a paper book. The worst is when you "have to" use a cell phone for work-related calls, while being out there. Because on most occasions you really don't have to.

Books... poetry... whatever works... Your brain can't stop thinking, so it has to be filled with something anyway. Books need a lot of time, though - on a weekend trip with short paddling distance and long hours ashore this is possible, but on multiday wilderness trips many other things need your attention, - and often you go to bed shortly after it gets dark, sleeping well, without much need in sedative effect of some books.

PS:
This thread has originated from the dilemma to use or not to use solar panels in a kayak - when you have too many electronics to feed. It is a matter of personal peference, - when to say "enough". IMO, when there is so much electronics that you need to replace or recharge batteries too often and therefore need a solar panel of a significant size, - it means that you have more electronics than necessary for this trip. There are very few items that can be considered necessary - headlamp, GPS, VHF (with GPS being quite questionable necessity on short trips). Photo camera (okay, we're doing this for fun anyway) - take a film and/or waterproof disposable camera to that loong trip. PDA for tide tables and weather reports - I am not sure... Tide tables are nice to have, but this isn't a matter of life and death. Besides, there are tide data in modern GPS units (and there are VHF weather channels). Cell phone and/or PLB as an emergency communication tool - okay, for emergency situations you won't need too many batteries. Yes, for long stay far away from everything, say, more than 5 weeks in the middle of nowhere, a solar panel might be needed. Just in case if premature discharge occurs in rechargeable batteries in those THE most crucial gadgets, like GPS and headlamp AND the trip is too long and back-up alcaline AA have already gone. Unlike Li battery of VHF or alcaline non-rechargeable AA, rechargeable NiMH AA don't keep the charge for long, losing it significantly after a week (not completely, it just loses 20-30% of capacity with time, and LED or film camera or even GPS will still work, but not too long). For shorter trips and/or closer to civilization - I think it is easier to limit the number of power-consuming devices.


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