[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4752: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4754: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4755: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4756: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3887)
Folding Kayaks Forum • View topic - Which stove to buy?

Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:03 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:00 am 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:31 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1715
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:21 am 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:27 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Not sure which Primus you have. But, if it is jetted for a propane/isobutane mixture (same fuel the MSR stoves take), it will burn the pure propane, but definitely with some loss of heat on the top end. Some stoves can be re-jetted using a fitting that replaces the ones that come with the stove, but I suspect the Primus people would not endorse that. Product liability issues, etc.

As to whether a white gas stove is convenient or not: no change in the basic technology. You still have to prime it. White gas is not convenient for Becky, to the extent that we take a very compact Primus (Model PLS 3266; takes the isobutane/propane canisters, Primus numbers 2202 or 2207; these should be readily available in Europe, perhaps not elsewhere) as well as the white gas stove, so that if she wants to boil water she can easily do that. She is a real coffee addict, so this makes refueling her easier!

Our camping is on a larger scale than that of others, so that carrying the Primus as well as the white gas stove is no big deal, with two boats, or the big double. On solo trips of one night or so, I often take the little Primus, which is convenient and quick. Will not handle a large stir fry, but works just fine for one-person heat and eat meals. Very well made stove, and very compact. Right now, her daughter has it, a consequence of the long power outage here from the big windstorm.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Last edited by krudave on Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:10 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Alm wrote: These long tanks look very similar to those that I've seen in Europe (can be red, yellow, blue etc), and I suspect, though not 100% sure, that the thread is the same too.

Tanks are sometimes color coded for the type of gas, at least in the US. Mapp gas, for example, is invariably blue, in small canisters in the US. Uses a different thread, and produces an incredibly hot flame, useful for silver soldering and copper pipe soldering in a plumbing context. Wiki on Mapp: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:57 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:01 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:35 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:30 am 
If I've got it right, propane flowing through my narrow Easyfuel burner will be leaner than if it were propane flowing through propane-designated burner, and as a result, the heat output will be TAD lower, and CO content - also lower? Then I really have nothing to worry about. I'm keeping in mind CO anyway during occasional (very occasional) use in tent in stormy weather. The tent had always had the door open on such occasions - not that I was worried about CO with storm-generated cold drafts all around, but simply as an escape route in case of fire.

PS: about colour-coding. It is apparently not the same in the US and Europe. And even in the US I've seen blue propane tanks for welding in hardware stores, and red propane for welding in Autozone. Have no idea, whether one of them was much hotter than another - the blue one I tried, and it was not unusually hot. Probably it was not the MAPP gas that you mentioned. But there was also yellow tank next to the blue one (or with a yellow label), cost $1 more, and when I asked "why", the clerk said "because it's very hot". So I didn''t buy yellow.

I've typed all this, thought about it a little - and I'm still not convinced that smaller opening of butane/isobutane burner in Easyfuel stove is causing lower heat output at normal operating level of regulator when burning pure propane. May be only - when the regulator is completely open. But I never keep it completely open. It is always somewhere in the middle, even when boiling (not to mention simmering), because I don't need that much flame and that much heat with 1-liter pot. Ony when the tank is almost empty and the pressure is very low, I open the regulator up completely. Better energy efficiency of butane/isobutane mix (per unit of weight and/or unit of volume) is a different thing - eventually I would consume it less than propane in the same trip, but only slightly less, - something to consider for hikers, but not for boaters


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:52 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Alex, someone familiar with the system you are using could be a lot more helpful than I can. The regulation of flow is done in a couple different ways, with some just being a needle valve against a seat, and the gas escaping through a small orifice after the needle valve. It is the diameter of that orifice that limits the upper end of the flow. When the needle valve is barely open (burner is on lowest simmer), the orifice is not the limiter for flow. When the needle valve is fully open, then the orifice becomes limiting.

[The orifice diameter is designed to match the flow of gas with the air ducted into the burner to get clean burning. But, if the air ducted in is excessive, then the temperature of the flame will be lower because the combustion process has to heat up "extra" air, beyond what is needed to combust the fuel. In addition, because the orifice for a butane stove will be smaller than the one for a propane stove, if you use a propane fuel source on a butane stove, you will get less fuel flow than optimal, and hence lower total heat output. In short, these two effects combine for a lesser heat output.]

Other systems use a step-down pressure regulator (sometimes very primitive) which reduces the pressure at the needle valve control, partly for safety reasons, and (I think) partly to provide for better control of the flame. The larger propane bottles (8 lb and up) use these, and have a flow prevention device in them, also, which reduces the likelihood of a massive leak. I use large propane (actually LPG) cylinders a lot on our household BBQ, and these flow prevention devices sometimes stick closed, and need some "persuasion" to work.

I think the small propane cylinders you are using do not have any flow prevention device or pressure regulator, and just rely on a needle valve.

Wiki to Propane: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane
Link to language below: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml02/02127.html

"An additional industry standard (adopted in 1995 at the urging of CPSC) provided for several safety features in the gas grills, hoses, and connections. The safety standard calls for a device to limit the flow of gas if the hose ruptures; a mechanism to shut-off the grill if it overheats; and a device to prevent the flow of gas if the connection between tank and grill is not leak-proof. People who have grills that do not meet the 1995 standard should either get a new grill or be especially attentive to the safety tips below."

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:54 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:08 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:19 pm 


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:29 pm 


Top
  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 74 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group