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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 1:42 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
I like the tarp idea as well. I like being able to lift my head up from sleeping an take an uninhibited 360 of the environs. I have two issues, though:

1) Higher fiddle factor than freestanding tent, especially when camping on sand. Setting up an MSR Vistawing and keeping it staked is a hassle on a sandy beach. Moreover, all the guy lines are wonderful tripping points for kids. My Hubba Hubba tent virtually pops open by itself, and is hard to beat for simplicity.

2) I definately sleep better knowing that I am protected from the creepy crawling critters. Think camel spiders and scorpions.

http://www.camelspiders.net/large-camel ... icture.htm

Wanting to have the best of both worlds I've draped mosquito netting from a tarp. This seems to double the fiddle factor.

I am still looking for the best solution.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 2:00 pm 
Paul:

This is starting to sound like a Lonely Planet guide heading: "Dangers and Annoyances".
BTW, what kind of snakes do you have over there? One of the worries in the US South-west is rattle snakes crawling into the bag with you, looking for warmth, -this could be an urban myth though... :?
We don't have venomous snakes in Chile, just tarantualas, scorpions and Brown Reclous spiders... oh, and plenty of mosquitos in the south.

I guess this is why I default to a tent with netting. Sometimes I like to immitate my boyhood heros, and camp primative/rough, but anyway, even with or without netting, its a good idea in these regions to shake out the shoes and clothes before putting them on, etc.

Andreas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:03 pm 
Agreed with Paul on both points. Dome tents like Hubba-Hubba are easy to set up. HH is different mostly due its all-mesh design (excluding the floor), and all poles are connected by shock-cords into one X. 2005 HH model with 2 doors is even better than the previous one, - short ridge pole is also connected to the rest, and with a second door I might consider leaving the tarp home for dry zones, if weight becomes a concern. With 2 doors open (mesh is closed, of course), HH is still an oven in mid-day in southern states or Mexico in early fall, compared to high-set tarp, - yet enough shade and air to avoid setting up the tarp. Especially on sand and without anything taller than 3-ft cacti. Setting HH or any other dome tent on sand isn't a problem too - grocery bags filled with sand and buried, or designated "sand anchors" from Campmor work well.

Scorpions, spiders, snakes etc are not to be ignored - even though only one scorpion type in North America is deadly, as I've found recently. Not much fun to be bitten and suffer for hours or days, anyway.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:22 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Another idea is a freestanding mesh tent (Hubba Hubba or other) without the fly but underneath a four point tarp (MSR parawing, Kelty Noah tarp). For hot weather camping, you'll have significantly better ventilation than using the stock fly. The four point wing doubles as a sunshade during the day. The freestanding tent can be moved in and out easily. The four point wings are a fairly simple set up and seem pretty robust. I got the 19' Parawing last year. Have used it a few times and like it much better than the Vistawing. Does anyone have experience with the MSR Trekker tent plus mesh insert? This is another modular system that looks interesting and is on closeout at a few places.

http://moontrail.com/msr/trekkertent/tr ... insert.php

Captain, I'm actually not sure what kind of snakes are here--I've haven't seen one yet. Scorpions and camel spiders are common, and these are my main concern.

How do you insert photos into these texts?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:25 am 
Paul wrote:
Another idea is a freestanding mesh tent (Hubba Hubba or other) without the fly but underneath a four point tarp (MSR parawing, Kelty Noah tarp). For hot weather camping, you'll have significantly better ventilation than using the stock fly. The four point wing doubles as a sunshade during the day. The freestanding tent can be moved in and out easily.


I like this idea, - and probably could use my silnylon 8'*10' tarp in lieu of Parawing. I only don't like it flapping in the wind - and would have to remove for the night for this reason. May be, Para with its catenary cut has less flapping (it claims so), but not 100% less.

MSR Trekker is an interesting thing; though, it requires minimum 2 poles (not included neither in price, nor in 5 lbs weight), and its setting up is similar to pup tent , i.e. more burdensome than free-standing tent. OTH, with this system one doesn't need to carry and set up any other tarp (for which 2 poles would've been needed anyway).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:12 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Catenary cuts minimize flapping. They billow but I have never heard flapping.

For the trekker tent-- collapsible painter poles or any other shaft measuring 48" or so would work. I was thinking about the painter pole option, as they can be had for a few bucks, and I have no pressing need for hiking poles right now. A paddle shaft would probably work as well.

A check to the local guide book says there are four kinds of vipers present in the desert here. The Sawscale and Carpet viper are two of them. I believe these are the only poisonous snakes here. Another snake called the 'Wadi Racer' is apparently commonly found in wadis and is not poisonous. Other innoucuous snakes mentioned are the Leaf-nosed snake, the Hooded Malpoon and the Hissing Sand snake. I have never heard of any of these names prior to reading this. The Desert or Grey monitor lizard iand the Spiny Tailed Agame (a burrowing, small dragon which grows to a length over half a meter) are also listed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:02 am 
Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Paul wrote:
Catenary cuts minimize flapping. They billow but I have never heard flapping.
That's true for the Kelty Noah's Tarp, making them terrific sun protection, but equivocal rain shields: the air slipstreams over and under them, carrying some mist/rain under the edges -- more so than a traditional square tarp rigged with a center support (or skyhook).

Probably not an issue for you, though, Paul! :lol:

Walrus (absorbed by MSR, I guess) makes some terrific tarps based on catenary cut: http://www.honedesign.com/sites/walrusg ... _tarp.html
http://www.honedesign.com/sites/walrusg ... p_240.html

The second one is a decent rain shelter.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 10:10 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Nice thing about the Parawing and Noah tarp is that they can be set up in a 'flying diamond' configuration, which would eliminate just about all the wind swept rain problem you mentioned above. In one of the popular sea kayaking books I have (can't remember the name off hand), the author shows his MSR Parawing in this configuration.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:44 pm 
Site Admin
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
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Location: Astoria, OR
Paul wrote:
Nice thing about the Parawing and Noah tarp is that they can be set up in a 'flying diamond' configuration, which would eliminate just about all the wind swept rain problem you mentioned above.
Not succesful, in my experience with a Noah's, unless you set it up extremely low to the ground ... and then you can't stand up underneath it. OTOH, the larger Walrus worked better -- but of course it is larger.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:22 pm 
Alm wrote:
HH is still an oven in mid-day in southern states or Mexico in early fall, compared to high-set tarp, - yet enough shade and air to avoid setting up the tarp.


My REI Quarter Dome is also quite the oven in mid-day. I guess if I'm not packing ultra light, having a tarp supported on poles to let a breeze through is ideal, -except for the guy lines to trip on :?

Paul wrote:
How do you insert photos into these texts?


I wondered the same thing, then I decided to expirament. I'm almost computer illiterate, but somehow it worked for me:

I went to the host site for my pics (here), right clicked the pic I wanted to insert, clicked properties, copied the link, came back here, clicked the box "Img", pasted the link after the [Img], then clicked the "Img" box again to close the code. 8)

Andreas


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:15 pm 
Quote:
My REI Quarter Dome is also quite the oven in mid-day. I guess if I'm not packing ultra light, having a tarp supported on poles to let a breeze through is ideal, -except for the guy lines to trip on


REI Quarter Dome is perhaps the cheapest free-standing dome from all the well-known brands, and has a lot of mesh and 2 doors. But after reading some reviews about the quality of floor, mesh and zippers, and also due to the sleeves for poles (agreed with Dave's earlier remark, they reduce the ventilation flow between the tent and the fly) - I decided to go for MSR Hubba Hubba.

Light 8'*10' Silnylon tarp weighs 13 oz - less than 1 lb, - this isn't much. $12 Nested Aluminum Pole from Campor weighs 12 oz, - not too heavy. But 2 poles (for a minimal tarp set-up without trees), plus tarp, plus ropes - altogether this is about 4 lbs. And this is just 6ft and lightweight pole, - and even though light, this Nested Pole sucks, compared to taller, heavier and more expensive adjustible Kelty Noah Pole. So, using it with 2 Kelty Noahs will bring the weight to 6 lbs (!). Adding another pair of poles for a comfortable breezy shelter will increase the weight again - definitely this would not qualify for an ultralight camper. Thanks God, we have kayaks to haul all this - after we have hauled them to the launch site.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:03 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1712
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Yes, the fiddle-factor with all the lines is annoying. I haven't tried other tarps. The Ray-Way design is so good that I have no need to look further (for six months of the year, at least). It's approximately one pound, with another pound for the net-tent (insert), if it is appropriate (this addresses all those keep-out-the-creepy-crawlies issues). I've used trees, hiking poles, paddles, big rocks, and slopes to guy the lines-- the minor hassle with the lines is well worth it. The last comment, about adding up the weight, was right on the money-- and you can't beat the honest one or two pounds for this tarp.

I packed out my air baggage the other day (I will soon follow it to Switzerland). I tossed my tarp to the mover, who was packing the crate while his partner was recording what was being packed. I said "tent!", and he put it in the box. Then he took it out again, held up the little bag, and said (incredulously) "Did you say this is a tent??".

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2006 8:16 pm 
Image

:shock:

Paul, it's difficult to get a sense of scale from this photo, but these guys look like they could eat through regular mosquito mesh :!:

Image

:shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:42 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1703
Location: Southeast Michigan
Cute. That's an oft-posted pic, and from what I understand, it was taken very close, making the spider look a lot bigger than it actually is. It's still a good-sized spider.

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Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:37 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:00 pm
Posts: 210
Location: River Danube, Austria
Since nobody seems to own a Kifaru tipi, i would like to add my experience as owner and user.

after checking the website for years, i ordered a Paratipi this spring and used it on my recent trip in the Broken Group Islands. It is very well made and very light. after sealing the seams no water seeped tru the seams, only a little tru the zipper. some moskitos allways made it into the tent, so i removed the moskito screen on the door and used a pyramid stile moskito net inside to keep the nasty little buggers at bay, worked very well for me (i did get visits from resident mouses on Hand Island, but they did not chew into my gear)

i did not use the small stove on that trip, had a Trangia alcohol stove instead, but i am looking foward for my first winterhike in the backmountains of southern upperaustria!

However, the paratipi seemed to samll for my and my partner, so i sent it back to the factory (for a full refund) and ordered a 4 man tipi instead. my experience is: if you want to buy a Kifaru tipi, go one size larger, the tipi size leave little headroom. that is: a paratipi is great of one person, a 4 man tipi for 2 and so on. of course, you can squeze the right number of campers in, but i had the feeleing, it is a little too small.

also, if you use the stove for cooking in bear country, i bet you need to have bearspray in extra large canisters, bearproof food containers and maybe even a gun for defending your camp. here in austria we have very few bears, and it is quite easy to scare an odd bear away, that is, if you are so lucky to see one at all.

I have a minimalist aproach in hiking and kayaking, usually, i bring only a gore tex bivy bag, a tarp and a wood burning camping stove, the kifaru tipi will be used on extended snowshoe hikes in late fall, winter and early spring.

will post some photos, if there is an interest,

servus

:P

Willi


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