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 Post subject: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:41 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Vancouver bc
Hi first I wanted to say thanks for the help with my last post!! I ended up buying a used Innova Safari that has some patches. I loved it so much I also bought a used Sunny for trips with my girlfriend. Now I have 2 similar problems:

1. One of the patches on the Safari has a leak. I sprayed it with 303 and that seems to have worked as a temporary fix.

2. The Sunny is 10 years old. When I received it it was missing one of the skeg patches (on the side to paddle solo) and the other one (on the side to paddle two-person) was obviously re-glued on with bits of glues poking around the sides. Well that skeg patch came off halfway through a paddle last week.

So here's my questions, do you folks have any advice for repairing Innova Nitrilon? I've got a patch kit, but I'm worried that simply glueing it back on will not hold very long. Are there longer lasting repair alternatives?


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 4:25 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:00 pm
Posts: 139
Tim is very helpful
You can contact him at: info@innovakayak.com
He repaired a leaky valve for a nominal price.

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BernieM
Folbot Cooper, Pakboat Sport, Innova Sunny, Epic GPX, Oru Kayak, Wike Bicycle Trailer


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:41 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 51
The main tip is don't use the glue supplied in the repair kit. It's just not strong enough. Use a two part hypalon glue like Bostik 2402 instead. The patches on my Sunny and Safari were done using that glue and are rock solid (and have been for five or six years). I quite often use my Safari for wave surfing with the skeg in, which as you can imagine generates quite a lot of lateral force on the patch, but it has held absolutely firm. Make sure you sand both areas well and follow the instructions on the adhesive and you should be fine

Good luck

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Barum Albatros
Gumotex Safari
Gumotex Sunny
Gumotex Scout


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 8:16 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Vancouver bc
Thanks for the advice. I got the 2 part hypalon adhesive, some acetone (to clean the area), some sandpaper and masking tape (to prevent glue spilling out of patch) and I'm going to repair tonight. Unfortunately Tim at Innova has been very difficult to reach (I've sent many emails).


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:46 am 
recent arrival

Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:13 pm
Posts: 4
I've been talking to Tim at Innova about problems we have been having with our Swings. He took some time off after the 4th and will be gone next week to a trade show, so don't expect a reply soon.

Good luck on your repairs. It sounds like you are on the right track for doing it right. I say this as an owner (and repairer) of power inflatables for 30 years. Just be careful with the acetone, it can take a lot of the outside rubber off very quickly. I've switched to MEK for repairs since it evaporates more quickly than acetone.


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:43 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:20 pm
Posts: 6
Hi, my first post on here. I would also recommend a good quality two part adhesive. The Bostik is good as is I.B.S.
Preparation is the golden rule, along with right glue for what your glueing.
Weight down the repair and allow at least 72 hours for the repair to bond.
I have glued skeg patches on Sea Eagles, Gumotex's and Sevylor's , plus lots of "D" patches for attachments.
A good seam roller for wallpaper is the ideal tool for expelling any air from the glued area.
I have a Safari, and love this little boat, I'm a very late convert to kayaking, but have been attending pool sessions for the last 18 months. I can now roll the little boat , left or right side, and love surfing in it.The only issue I have found is it will not run i front of a wave, but has to be ridden along the wave, which is OK if the beach is empty, but frightens the life out of people when bare down on them from an odd angle.
I threw out the inflatable foot cushion as it was hopeless, but devised my own foot rest using the thigh strap securing patches, and some plastic water pipe, with hose pipe through the middle, and some pipe lagging around the plastic pipe.
A couple of air bags secured front and rear stops the boat filling with to much water, which keeps it easy to paddle.
A couple of weeks ago I passed my white water proficiency test on our local purpose built white water centre, so I can now paddle there at will, though not very well at the moment.
I also have an older Sea Eagle 380X, and also a Gumotex twist two. The latter is our holiday boat as it will go as carry on luggage.
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:33 pm 
forum fan

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Vancouver bc
Thanks for all the replies!! I used the two-part hypalon adhesive and got the skeg patch on. It was good enough for a recent trip on Garibaldi Lake. Unfortunately I have a few problems:
-I did not realize there is a front and back, I glued the skeg patch on backwards
-I glued the skeg patch on with the kayak inflated and the metal skeg parts in. I felt this was necessary to get the round groove of the boat right and to make sure I did not glue the holes closed for skeg attachment. The problem is there must of have been air under the patch and now it's a little lumpy.

I've fine with taking the boat for little trips around town (been commuting to work in it), but makes me nervous to take on big open water. Last time the skeg came off I was spinning in circles.


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:27 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:20 pm
Posts: 6
Hhmmee, It'll probably have to come of again unfortunately.
It's always best to do these task with air completely drained out.
Stick some gaffer tape to the bits of the patch that you don't want to be glued, these can be pulled of afterwards.
Use a wallpaper seam roller, or the end of a big plastic screwdriver to expel all the trapped air.
Pre cut the shape of the patch on some quick release tape, then stick that to the material, it's then easy to keep the glue confined to the correct area.
A bag of sand makes an excellent weight as it will shape to the contours required.
It must be a different patch to what we have here in the UK as mine is universal for direction.
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:41 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 51
It sounds like the old skeg/fin patch, where you have to insert four metal angle brackety things and then bolt the fin in between them. If so, the way that it tells you to do it in the instructions is to insert strips of card into the slits in the fin patch to make sure you don't inadvertently glue them to the boat. These can then be removed (fairly satisfactorily) once the glue has dried. Bouncycastle is right - it's much better to glue it when there's no air in the tubes and his tips on using a wallpaper roller and weighting it are also spot on.

However, if you're thinking that you'll need to take it off and have another go, it might be worth getting the new style patch and fin and using that instead. It's a much better design that doesn't use bolts - see here for how Chris did his https://apaddleinmypack.wordpress.com/s ... ble-kayaks. You'll need the whole kit - skeg and patch - which costs about $50 (Canadian) from Solely Marine here in the UK, plus whatever they charge for shipping (won't be all that much I don't think). Innova also do them, but they don't seem to be in stock

Edit: actually, maybe you could confirm which patch you have - the link to Chris's site shows a boat with both types attached. With the old style red one it doesn't matter which way round you glue it (the fin will sit a little forward or back depending on which way round it goes) and the new style black one seems to be completely unidirectional

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Barum Albatros
Gumotex Safari
Gumotex Sunny
Gumotex Scout


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:29 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:20 pm
Posts: 6
I got mine here,
http://www.bluewatersports.com/
I have put one on the front of my Gumotex Twist 2 , really for when my wife paddles that boat. It did make it more directional to paddle, with less waggling in the water.
I'm now contemplating adding another patch to the front of the Safari, in a bid to make it run straight in front of a wave,rather than veering of uncontrollably to one side or the other. If the idea doesn't work, well I can just leave it off.
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:42 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 51
That might work Mike, although personally I wouldn't want to do anything to blunt the Safari's abilities to surf on the 'green', unbroken part of the wave. Its on-wave performance is quite impressive (for an inflatable), allowing you to do very many of the surf ski/surf kayak manouevres like cutbacks, top turns and so on, albeit a bit less critically. And because you can catch waves so early you can almost manufacture 'shape' to ensure that you get a decent ride on the unbroken face even if the waves are closing out (breaking all in one go rather than tapering). Is there no way that you can find a quiet spot away from the swimmers so you can practise surfing properly rather than having to go straight in the whitewater?

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Barum Albatros
Gumotex Safari
Gumotex Sunny
Gumotex Scout


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:15 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:20 pm
Posts: 6
The trouble is we live a considerable distance from any genuine surfing waves, so my only real practise comes on the annual holiday excursion to Cornwall. Last year I mastered a modicum of control, this year I conquered rolling the beasty back upright in the surf, and riding an unfolding left to right break, but that was on the last outing of the last day :( . There's a vimeo of a Polish guy using one in a howling storm, but always riding along the wave. I guess just a lot more practice is needed.
On the white water course I found the Safari easier in the section's, with it being light enough to just punch through holes and stoppers, but awfully unstable in the boils, where you were just upside down with no prior warning, but again lack of WW time would play a significant part in that.
How have you got on with footrest cushion?
I also took out the elastic shock cord front and back, and replaced that with individual plastic ratchet type straps. I found these hold a 90 litre air bag in place more securely. This saves on about 150 litres of water temperarily sitting in the boat, at 1kg a litre, or two reasonable large adults :!: :!: .
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:06 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:22 am
Posts: 394
Location: Coastal New Jersey
Don't know how a bow skeg would work on the Safari but I've seen this done on a hard shell with less than optimal results. Running down wind waves the boat tended to broach and otherwise become difficult to manage.


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:14 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:20 pm
Posts: 6
Jake wrote:
Don't know how a bow skeg would work on the Safari but I've seen this done on a hard shell with less than optimal results. Running down wind waves the boat tended to broach and otherwise become difficult to manage.

You're probably correct, I was looking for a short cut to proficiency, but it's going to have to be good old fashioned time and practice.
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Innova Repairs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:10 am 
forum fan

Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Vancouver bc
Thanks again for your replies!! Now that I think of it, it really makes sense to glue it flat (deflated). Just to clarify it is the older style metal skeg. It still works with the patch on backwards, I just want to make sure to do it right next time. Is there a way I can remove it now to have another shot at gluing it on properly?


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