Klepper Master

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TSBaughman

Klepper Master

Post by TSBaughman »

I just bought a Klepper Master in great condition. I had never heard of this boat until I found it on Craigslist Seattle while searching for an Aerius. I've been out twice on the Willamette, and it sails nicely, feels solid, and doesn't leak.

The rubber hull is supple and has obviously been stored well, but there is a little bit of stiffness and minor surface cracking at the prow. A couple of patches made by previous owners look good but are loosening around the edges. The canvas is in good condition with just a couple of spots where the seams need to be re-stitched.

In worst shape are the rubber rod holders. About half of them are brittle and broken. The Aerius rod holders sold by Long Haul are too small for the larger diameter rods of the KM.

Maybe I'm trying to cover too much ground in one post, but here goes:

1. Can anyone recommend procedures and products I can use to care for the hull?
2. Does anyone know where I might find replacement rod holders? I want to re-fit all of the ribs with a new set, so I'm trying to round up 16 of them.
3. Along the coaming, right where the oarlocks should be, I have metal pegs that fit in the 1/2" diameter holes on each side with nuts on the underside that secure the pegs to the coaming. Are these pegs intended to accept oarlock (with female stems), or are they used for something else?
4. Finally, do you have a KM? I would love to chat with you about how you have used it and to learn about some specific issues related to this neat little boat.

Thanks!

Tom Baughman, Portland, OR

Kapitän von Klepper

Re: Klepper Master

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

Hi,
TSBaughman wrote: 1. Can anyone recommend procedures and products I can use to care for the hull?
I'd love to know of something that would work well. Your hull is probably rubber, so I'd start with some sort of silicone agent such as you might find at a dive shop. In the end, even if your skin completely falls to shreds, keep it as various companies (including Klepper) can make replacements using the old skin as a pattern.
wrote:2. Does anyone know where I might find replacement rod holders? I want to re-fit all of the ribs with a new set, so I'm trying to round up 16 of them.
If memory serves me right, the KM still uses Klepper standard rod holders with one rivit hole. If so, no worries, you can easily find replacements from either Klepper or Long Haul. If they are the double rivit holders as were used in Klepper Super Master and Klepper Passat, you may have to mill some of your own out of high density plastic. I had a set of 14 of these as recently as last year that I sold on E-bay. If you need any other Klepper Master specific hardware, PM me. What I have left is all down in Olympia. :wink:
wrote:3. Along the coaming, right where the oarlocks should be, I have metal pegs that fit in the 1/2" diameter holes on each side with nuts on the underside that secure the pegs to the coaming. Are these pegs intended to accept oarlock (with female stems), or are they used for something else?
Yes, these are oarlock mounts. Unfortunately I E-bayed the oarlocks I had last year as well :( .
wrote:4. Finally, do you have a KM? I would love to chat with you about how you have used it and to learn about some specific issues related to this neat little boat.
No, and I'm way envious. :P Never-the-less, I have developed a lot of wisdom in sailing the AE II and may still be of assistance when it comes to sailing a small gaff rigged/leeboarded craft. I'm up in SJI, -where it's great for sailing, so we might be able to go out in our perspective boats some time and compare notes. Also, somewhere among all of my stuff is a Klepper manual on boating, -In German :?

-Andreas

TSBaughman

Re: Klepper Master

Post by TSBaughman »

Thanks for your response!

1. I've seen some discussion regarding hull care products with silicon and some suggestions that it is not good for hypalon. Is this true? I don't know if the hull is rubber or hypalon as I'm unsure of the difference between the two. Can you explain how I can tell? I know this boat was only made between 1958 and 1972...
2. My rod holders have single rivets. I spoke with Mark at Long Haul and he indicated the rod holders he sells will not fit unless modified for the larger diameter rods of the KM. We talked about how the modification might be done, and he had some ideas. While I am willing to pay him to give it a shot, I can understand why he might not want to do it. Haven't yet tried Klepper. I'll keep looking.
3. Really sorry I missed your ebay sale! The pegs can be removed and a standard oarlock will fit. It would be cool, though, to use the original equipment...
4. We go to Orcas every year in late summer, and I'm excited to get up there with this boat. Definitely up for a sail with you! I would like to see any manuals you have...I have some nice materials on pdf including a KM assembly guide, a "Sailing With Klepper" pamphlet, and a set of KM parts diagrams. Here's a tidbit related to my post: according to the parts diagram, the rod holders are Klepper part number 7028, and the oarlocks are part number 8049.

Thanks again for your advice,

TB

john allsop
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1203
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: isles of scilly UK

klepper master

Post by john allsop »

If you havn,t seen the German web site on all the early fold up,s and equipment ,it,s well worth looking at. Click on links in the left column and scroll up to where it say,s "even if you don,t speak German" click on the web site, when it comes up find klepper master in the list, click on it , there,s lot,s of photo,s and drawings and these may be of interest. I havn,t checked yet but wayland of poland might help, you can send them an e-mail in English and they will reply, a new hull from them ,IF available may be a lot cheaper than you expect.

mje
Site Admin
Posts: 1875
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Southeast Michigan

Post by mje »

I had a Master, with a brand new skin made by Mark Ekhart at Long Haul Folding Kayaks. He can supply you with parts and replacement skins.

Never use silicone (not silicon) products on any part of a folding kayak. They contaminate the wood and hull and make repair of refinishing impossible.
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster

Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

mje wrote: Long Haul Folding Kayaks... can supply you with parts and replacement skins.

Never use silicone (not silicon) products on any part of a folding kayak. They contaminate the wood and hull and make repair of refinishing impossible.
I'm sure Mark can supply skins, but I think he stopped stocking replacement parts as he wasn't even remotely interested in my remaining stock.
M I bad! :roll: I didn't mean the silicone spay lubricant, I meant something I had heard of being offered in dive shops to perserve rubber (now antiquated) dive gear. I'm not sure if any such thing exists.

-Andreas

TSBaughman

Post by TSBaughman »

John Alsop, thanks for the link to the website. It was fun and useful to review it.

mje, can you recommend a specific product for hull maintenance? I've heard of 303, and I think on another post I heard of a hull care product from Folbot. I'd also appreciate your thoughts on care of the canvas top. A friend with an Aerius II suggested that the best thing for the canvas was to keep it clean and make sure it dries out after use. It seems, tho, that there might be some beneficial treatment out there.

Regarding finding replacement rod holders, I have tried Long Haul and Klepper without success. I spoke with Mark on the phone and he said he no longer carries parts for the KM, and that the Aerius rod holders he stocks are for a smaller diameter rod. I also sent an email to Klepper, but have not gotten a response. I am going to try to contact Marcus Heisse, who apparently also makes the KM hull, and see if he might have some ideas. I have my fingers crossed that someone at Klepper may respond to my note.

Glad to hear you have a KM. Use it much?

Regards to all,

TB

Kapitän von Klepper

Post by Kapitän von Klepper »

BTW I should mention that KlepperUSA isn't likely to be of much help when it comes to KM. There are a couple of KM, Supermaster, and Passat clubs in the US that may be of help. Klepper.de also is a good resource provided you convince them from the start that you don't want to speak with KlepperUSA, or they will forward your e-mail there. Peter at Klepper West is very knowledgeable and may be of some help, -I wish he were the official Klepper rep in the US! :roll:

-Andreas

mje
Site Admin
Posts: 1875
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Southeast Michigan

Post by mje »

Peter also imports directly from Klepper in Germany so he's a good avenue for dealing with them.
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster

amlaidlaw

Re: Klepper Master

Post by amlaidlaw »

Hello TSBaughman

I would love to have a set of oarlock pins.

I have a spare (nearly complete) Master frame and would be willing to give up nearly anything in trade!

A. Laidlaw (amlaidlaw@hotmail.com)

klepperluvva

Re: Klepper Master

Post by klepperluvva »

I have a KLepper Master, I got it in unused condition after it had been stored in a shed for 25 years.
The sailing rig had been used but only lightly.
My hull rubber is in fantastic condition but I am also looking for a reliable substance that might extend its life.
I think its a great boat. I know that it floats and supports me even when totally full of water after a capsize, but I also know that you cant climb back in and bale it out in that state, as it is totally unstable , and that you can't bale it out at all in a force 4 faster than the water comes in again. I survived and learned a lesson.
Make sure you have air bags at bow and stern. Notice that the floor/seat panels only have 2 clips, at opposite corners, and not one at each corner. I replaced the blank metal parts with secure clips on the two seat sections so that they are much more secure,. Then you can fix an airbag underneath. You should be able to buy the clips easily, they are the same as on the Aerius.
Cheers, Klepperluvva.

TSBaughman

Re: Klepper Master

Post by TSBaughman »

So far I haven't capsized but you got me thinking more about it - thanks. I'll be getting some flotation up in the bow. I've noticed the deck and seats have only two clips and panels have detached when I've turned the boat over on land. Did you lose panels when you capsized?

Baling in a force 4 sounds like something to be avoided. I carry a cut off milk jug that won't make much of a dent in calm water much less with waves splashing in. Glad you made it back to shore and I hope your boat was none the worse for wear.

As for hull and canvas conditioning, I bought 303 Aerospace protectant and 303 fabric/vinyl cleaner and have treated the boat once. Probably time to do it again.

Are your rod holders in good condition? I made 16 new ones, replacing all of the old, brittle and broken ones on my ribs.

Upcoming trip - camping and sailing beautiful Olallie Lake (Oregon) in a few weeks with Mt. Jefferson overhead. Had some great lake sailing this last Saturday on Devil's Lake near Lincoln City, Oregon.

Best,

TB

klepperluvva

Re: Klepper Master

Post by klepperluvva »

My rod holders in the Master are all perished but not totally falling apart and useless yet. I know that they should be replaced but have not got round to making some. I do have some spare ones from an Aerius 2 but think they are too small.
When I capsized none of the floor/seat parts fell out, fortunately.
I now use a "bow/stern" air bag designed for an open canoe and a small "centre " air bag designed for the middle of an open boat. Seems fine. The boat was totally unscathed and I was fine even though it was in Scotland and the water was cold.But I had made sure I was properly dressed in the first place.
Cheers, Klepperluvva

CarolB

Re: Klepper Master

Post by CarolB »

Hi, Glad to know there is a Klepper Passat club. I didn't know this. I have a very nice Passat to sell. How should I go about this? What is a fair price since it has a full sailing rig, 2 nice sails and very good frame. It has 6 bags, a pair of oars and a little Klepper bow flag. The cart/ dolly is an origional to move it about. Skin is supple and well cared for. CarolB

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