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 Post subject: Feathercraft hull repair
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:54 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
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I will open the forum with a call for help.
I have an old Feathercraft K-1. It is one of the early ones, hypalon hull. I have ordered three hypalon strips, 31/4 inch wide to go full length on the keel and chines. Feathercraft says they will ship tomorrow.
I will accept any advice you have for putting the new strips on. I have HH-66 cement from another project. Will it work on hypalon? Has anyone done this? I guess I'll just tack one end then progressively glue and tack the strips, (by tack I mean fasten them in place with tape not real tacks)
I have prepped the job by peeling off the old gorilla tape and duct tape and got rid of most of the old glue. As you see by the width of the strips I mean to cover the old strips and some of the old esoteric repairs of unknown material. This is an old kayak and it has seen a lot of abuse but the frame is good and the skin is good but for the extensive scraping.
BTW, I've already posted it but I used tent spray to seal the top canvas that was leaking as all old Feathercrafts do.
I'm training with this kayak everyday so I guess when I'm ready to glue I'll have to bring it in the front room for a few days to dry and get up to temperature.
advice....???


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Last edited by treewater on Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 11:22 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
I'm answering my own questions here but the web says HH-66 is for vinyl hulls as in old Folbots. I've ordered a quart of Clifton hypalon adhesive from NRS. They have instructions on their website. If I'm wrong tell me now.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:56 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 453
A few years ago I patched my old rubber-hulled T9 with hypalon strips. I either used Clifton's adhesive, or possibly one of their competitors', I forget. Being a novice I was careful to follow their instructions as closely as possible and it has worked extremely well: I am happily paddling the T9 several years later and the patches are holding up. I remember it as being a job involving working with a lot of rather poisonous chemicals, from the glue itself to the toluene and acetone that I used to clean the skin before applying it. I suspect a respirator would have been a good idea (though I didn't use one and just tried to limit exposure to the fumes). As I remember it (but please follow the instructions if they disagree in any way with my memory), I cleaned the hull of duct tape gum and other dirt using toluene and acetone, sanded the back of the hypalon patch and the area to be patched (probably marked out with masking tape), wiped over again with acetone to remove any traces of water or rubber from the sanding and then used a paintbrush to paint both the patch and area to be patched with the glue (to which I had added some sort of accelerator using a pipette) and left them to dry for 5(?) minutes. When the glue was almost dry I very carefully applied the patch/strip to the area to be patched. (Be careful here as the glue will 'grab' the patch if you lay it down wrongly and then I remember having to sand the glue off and start again. To manage the long strip of flexible patch, which was a bit too long for me to manage, I partially rolled one end around a jar.) After gluing I applied firm pressure with a spoon to press the patch to the hull.

After letting the glue dry for a day I felt unsure about the edges of my patches so I ran a bead of McNett's aquaseal along the edges of the patch to make sure nothing lifts. I filled in a few 'nicks' in the skin at the same time. The advice i followed was to round the corners of the patch--no square corners.

I have located a .pdf from Klepper about applying hull strips. If I can figure out how to send it to you (perhaps you can PM me an email address), I will do so. I used it in combination with the instructions that came with the hypalon adhesive.

Good luck with your patching!
Ian


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:42 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 824
Location: atlanta, georgia
Treewater,

Looking forward to hearing about results, I am about to do the same for an older Klepper. Please heed the caution from idc: no one knows the long term effects from exposure to solvents, and I would treat them as carcinogens. If you can't use a respirator then please ventilate, with moving air, the area you are working in.

I plan to lay out and tack the hypalon strips, one at a time, then mask off the strips leaving about 1/8th inch of exposed hull between the strip and the masking tape. After applying the glue and strip, I will remove the masking tape, which will serve as a guide and guard. Hope that makes sense and, in any case, you will get there before I do so any learnings will be appreciated.

g

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 Post subject: Re: started hull repair
PostPosted: Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:02 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
I've started the hypalon repair on my Feathercraft. I really recommend if you do this you start with a small repair patch if this is your first time. Using hypalon glue is sort of like Contact cement. You have to do several coats, let it get tacky, then press the patch on. fundamentally, clean and prep is one job. Whatever you use to clean, and tuolene or MEK are what I used, You'll do this first. Then cut and match the patch to size. That 2 inch overhang is a good idea. Mark the outline with a felt pen, then start the three application process. The directions came with the can of glue. Three coats, dry to "tacky" between, both pieces, then press it on. Once it is in place, it will not move so be careful. Mind you, this stuff will stick to anything it comes in contact with, paper, shirt, edges of anything. You really have to do some test jobs before the big long strip. Tuolene is the essential chemical. I got mine at Sherman Williams $18/gal. Not bad. I'm putting the small patches w/o respirator. Not a great idea. For sure, the respirator is the first thing I will get in the morning.
This hull was in serious bad shape even it only leaked a little. The $210 for patches and glue is not a bad price for a usable hull on a Feathercraft. The test is in the water. More later.


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 Post subject: Re: YES RESPIRATOR
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:48 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
YES buy the respirator. Those two patches last night near to knocked me out. Lowes sells a $40 respirator advertised for MEK and other things. Absolutely worth it. I'm having to mix and thin the glue as well as make the three applications. W/o the respirator I'd be calling 911 by now. Doesn't help it's winter and I have to work in a closed shop.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:45 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:19 pm
Posts: 301
Location: Oakland, California
Treewater,

Thanks for bringing up the toxicity of solvents!
I learned many years ago the dangers of the various solvents and high tech coatings. In general respirators help with the solvents they were designed for, but good ventilation is also essential. The danger with respirators is that while they can absorb most of the solvents, a bit can get through. The respirator cartridges can fill up surprisingly fast and loose their effectiveness. I have changed out the cartridges after only a day of use! The tip is to test the cartridges when you put on the mask:
If you can smell any solvent in the cartridges, toss them!

Regarding the more nasty solvents, some characteristics:
MEK is a powerfull narcotic.
Toluene is bad for your red blood cells.
Methylene chloride (used in paint strippers) forms carbon monoxide in the blood stream.
Linear polyurethane, as in two part solvent based coatings, contain highly toxic isocyanates. These cannot be filtered out. Supplied air masks are the solution.

The reality is that many, if not most, technically superior solvents, coatings and adhesives are toxic to some degree. But even "natural" gum turpentine can cause kidney damage... Education, proper protection and work methods are essential. The key is to limit your exposure to the lowest level and shortest time possible.

My tip is to work outside, and upwind from the solvents in a gentle breeze. THEN reach for the respirator. There is a reason why chemical labs have vent hoods...

Chris

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 2:47 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
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I'm using NRS Clifton Hypalon Adhesive. Tuolene is to hypalon glue like turpentine to oil paint. But the glue viscosity is so high the comparison ends there. I took a small glass Pyrex dish and mixed the glue to a thinner consistency but it still is not right. You can see the drips on the hull top. I just put on three patches. The hull top is not important but give me a chance to experiment. I used masking tape to hold the sides down after the patch was in place. The edges of the patch want to curl leaving that small gap mentioned above by faltbootemeister. The masking tape prevents that by holding down the edge and at least for me, it came off easy. As you see, I'm patching the tips which were well worn, frazzled even. That will be a two step process as I have wrapped the top first and when it is dry will stretch the keel.

Chris, I agree with you. I'm just doing small patches and even with the respirator, I smell the stuff. I've still got 16 ft strips to put on. They can wait until it is warm enough to work outside. I want to live and enjoy paddling my kayak.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:40 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1113
Location: isles of scilly UK
For patching hyperlon i found the two part adhesive sold by "Automarine" (the klepper dealer in Calgary) give excellent results, my patches and keel strips have been on for years. But it probably can,t be shipped across the border. Are we not in the wrong section as there is a dedicated repair section, also unless members are logged in they won,t see these comments.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:08 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:31 pm
Posts: 144
Don't know. Should this discussion be moved?


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